Sadolin Ultra vs Sadolin Classic vs Sikkens Cetol 7 Plus

[RogerM]

A previous test http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=519&p=21991 set up in 2012 compared Osmo UV Oil and Sikkens Cetol Filter 7 Plus on Iroko, and it was not long before Sikkens showed its class. But would that be the same on other species of wood? And how would it compare with Sadolin? That's what this new test is set up to establish.

This time I've used separate test pieces for each timber and finish, and each piece of wood for each species comes from the same plank.



Column 1 is Iroko
Column 2 is English Oak
Column 3 is Sapele
Column 4 is treated softwood

Row 1 (Top) is Sadolin Ultra (Walnut). One coat of Sadolin clear base coat with 2 coats of top coat
Row 2 is Sadolin Classic (Walnut) 2 coats
Row 3 is Sikkens Cetol Filter 7 Plus (Walnut). One coat of Cetol HLS (Light Oak), with 2 coats of Cetol Filter 7 Plus (Walnut)
Row 4 is Sikkens Cetol Filter 7 Plus (Pale Oak). One coat of Cetol HLS (Light Oak), with 2 coats of Cetol Filter 7 Plus (Light Oak )
Row 5 (Bottom) is bare wood with no finish.

All finishes were applied onto dry wood with a brush in accordance with manufacturers instructions. All edges have been rounded over.

It'll be interesting to see which brand comes out on top, and also whether the more pigmented Sikkens Walnut is more durable than the Pale Oak equivalent from the same manufacturer.

The whole artistic creation will be placed upright facing south in full sun, and as before, I'll update every 6 months, or when I remember, or when asked!

 

[Mike G]

Blimey, that un-finished softwood is a bright white.

My FIL swears by Sadolin. I've always hated it, and this illustrates why, already. It looks like the wood has been dropped into used engine oil taken from a 50 year old tractor.

Sorry to be a pain, Roger, but could you please confirm the Sikkens product names & numbers, please, as Cetol Filter 7 isn't immediately obvious on their website:

http://www.sikkens-wood-coatings.co.uk/en/home.html

 

[RogerS]

Excellent idea, Roger :eusa-clap:

 

[Coley]

Looks very thorough ! Was the wood degreased before you applied the finish ?

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[RogerM]

No de-greasing. The wood was dry, and surfaces newly planed and sanded with 240 grit with a ROS. The instructions didn't specify degreasing, and in any event, I wanted to keep this "real world" and I don't think most people would necessarily de-grease an exterior project.

 

[Rod]

I’ve used the same two Sikkens products on my house having found it lasted longer between re- treatments over the years.
My wooden frames are about 25 yrs old and have been finished with first Sadolin and then Sikkens.
On the south side Sadolin only lasted 2 yrs whereas Sikkens was about 4. Treatment consisted of a light sanding followed by the base coat where the paint had worn off followed by the top coat overall.
Over the years the grain effect has been lost with paint build-up and this year the coating has started to crack and flake off in places. It’s now reached the stage where it needs taking down to the bare wood and starting again.

Rod

 

[Coley]

I think it might make a difference, certainly helps finishs to dry quicker and you can see the empty wood pores. Sadolins recommend degreasing with meths before applying the first coat.

The job I'm doing at the moment the builder arranged which finish they wanted. Sapele windows, painted finish. I always use aluminium primer but dulux stressed the importance of wiping down with white spirit before putting on the first coat - This is the first time I've never had to wipe down with something other than meths !!!! For the topcoat they recommended dulux opaque which I haven't came across before. Coverage is terrible but if it does what it says on the tin it'll be worth the extra coats.

It'll be interesting to see how your samples hold up.
Cheers

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[RogerS]

For painting outside wood, I'm very impressed with linseed oil-based paints.

 

[Coley]

For painting outside wood, I'm very impressed with linseed oil-based paints.

I've got a tin I need to try after Jacobs recommendation. Just need something to put it on. The builder said the client wanted little green paint but said it cost too much. Dulux is cheaper but will need 1-2 extra coats. 1-2 extra coats worth of paint as well as labour !!! [emoji28]

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[9fingers]

Sorry to be a pain, Roger, but could you please confirm the Sikkens product names & numbers, please, as Cetol Filter 7 isn't immediately obvious on their website:

Data sheet here Mike https://www.duluxtradepaintexpert.co.uk ... 7_plus.pdf

hth
Bob

 

[RogerM]

Sorry to be a pain, Roger, but could you please confirm the Sikkens product names & numbers, please, as Cetol Filter 7 isn't immediately obvious on their website:

Data sheet here Mike https://www.duluxtradepaintexpert.co.uk ... 7_plus.pdf

hth
Bob

No problem Mike. I used Sikkens Cetol Filter 7 Plus (Light Oak 006) and Sikkens Cetol Filter 7 Plus (Walnut 010). In each case I used Cetol HLS Plus (Light Oak 006) as a base coat. I didn't use the walnut base coat for the simple reason that I had light oak on the shelf, didn't have any walnut, and I wasn't going to spend £16 on a full can just for this test! It is also worth mentioning that all cans were about 18 months old, having been left over from when I painted the house last summer, so not fresh stock. Another "real world" ingredient perhaps, but again with the price of these finishes I wasn't going to buy new cans when I had some on the shelf. HTH.

 

[RogerM]

Here is an update on the Sadolin or Sikkens test pieces.





After 15 months the only ones showing visible signs of degradation are the Iroko and English Oak with Sadolin classic (Walnut). The Sadolin Classic on the Sapele and Treated Softwood is fine, as are the other finishes. I wouldn't expect much degradation after just one summer. Let's see what another one does!

 

[RogerS]

Interesting experiment. But ...be interesting to try it up here to see how they fare !

 

[RogerM]

Interesting experiment. But ...be interesting to try it up here to see how they fare !

Sounds like something for you to do in your copious spare time Roger! Actually, the finish degrades fastest in summer so my guess is the finishes will last longer oop north. It's the UV wot does it.

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[Rod]

Yes my woodwork on the south side of the house in the sunny south, needed repainting every 3 to 4 yrs. The north side lasted much much longer. I used the Sikkens system as earlier trials with Sadolin were not too good.
After 27yrs the paint has failed completely and would have needed burning off and starting again. I now have a “dropped” foot after a Cryoablation procedure to blast out my cancer tumour. So my days of climbing up ladders is at an end. Sadly I had to give in and we now have PVC windows and doors. [emoji53]

Rod

 

[AndyP]

Thanks for the update Roger.

What fascinates me most about this is how the unfinished wood will hold up.

 

[RogerM]

This test has been running for 21 months now, and we're well into the second summer. As expected, mixed results so far.

The Sadolin Ultra, and both Sikkens finishes (walnut and light oak) are holding up well on all timbers. That's rows 1, 3 and 4, with row 5 being bare uncoated timber.



The Sadolin Classic (walnut) is however, already showing signs of deterioration on the iroko (column 1) and English oak (column 2), although still holding up well on the Sapele (column 3) and treated softwood (column 4). I didn't degrease any of the woods with meths before painting, so I'm wondering whether that has had any influence. This next photos shows the iroko (left) and oak (right) treated with Sadolin Classic.



Let's see what damage another summer inflicts on it.

 

[Woodbloke]

. Sadly I had to give in and we now have PVC windows and doors. [emoji53]

Rod

Nothing to be sad about Rod...I wouldn't look any any house if it had wooden windows, principally 'cos exterior house painting of any sort is the pits, although I do manage to give the front door a lick of red paint each year and only then after SWIMBO 'reminds' :eusa-whistle: me to do it, which hasn't happened thus far this summer - Rob

 

[Simon_M]

I had Sadolin Classic (two coats) and Sadolin Extra (like Ultra?) 2 coats on exterior grade ply soffits and fascias and also (not ideal) softwood window frame and window sills. The Classic was there to penetrate the wood and provide a stained finish and the Extras applied to "finish" the surface and add gloss, UV protection and runoff for rain etc.

Eventually the windows were replaced (powder coated aluminium) but the fascia and soffits were left for over 30 years with no extra treatment. From a distance the finish was acceptable and the only issue was that the fascia exposed to the sun would curl slightly. I was told that the ply doesn't need any form of treatment and anything applied is just cosmetic - that's probably not true for the softwood that needs a little help.

The windows were a complete disaster. They were made from softwood and it looked like no attention was paid to the knots by the builder. Within a couple of years the window sills were curling up and the frames were twisting. The builder denied that there was a problem and cut off the sills and replaced them - even worse.

The windows would probably lasted much longer if they had been left a lighter colour - any attempt to give the impression of a hardwood e.g. by staining has the effect of limiting their durability. The pigment in the stain is really it's downfall.

The main problem was staining the wood to a very dark brown. This caused the wood to be affected greatly by sunlight. If it had been a lighter colour the effects of the sun would have been greatly reduced. So in the test workpieces it's consistent that the Classic treated wood would be the first to show wear - aside from colouring the wood there is little on the surface to offer any protection so any surface that is there is quick to go off.

 

[max power]

Interesting that the sapele now looks lighter than the oak Roger

 

[RogerM]

Nearly 12 months on, so time for another update.



The top row, Sadolin Ultra, is wearing well, although there are slight signs of deterioration on the English Oak (second column).

The second row, Sadolin Classic, is showing signs of deterioration on all woods.

The third row, Sikkens Filter 7 Plus (Walnut), is holding up well apart from on the English Oak (second column) where it is showing clear signs of deterioration.

The fourth row (Sikkens Filter 7 Plus (Light Oak) is also wearing well, although there are slight signs of deterioration on the Sapele (Column 3). I treated a sapele postbox at the same time with this and that is also showing signs of deterioration so I will paint it again this summer.

The bottom row is natural wood included as a "control". We are now 2 yrs and 9 months in so would expect some sort of deterioration in that time, as the test is south facing in full sun, and with a salty atmosphere as this is a coastal position.

So far the clear loser here is the Sadolin Classic (row 2). There would appear to be little to choose so far between the Sadolin Ultra and the two shades of Sikkens. Possibly the Sikkens Walnut is faring slightly less well than the Sikkens Light Oak, which was contrary to expectations, but it is still early days. Let's see what another year brings.

 

[sammy.se]

This is a great thread and experiment, thanks for the updates!

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[Mike G]

Roger, any chance of an update on this?

As an aside, the Cetol Filter 7 is supposed to be used over a primer (HLS). Is that what you did, can you remember? Sikkens say to expect 5 to 7 years before re-coating on hardwood joinery, so long as the initial coatings were applied thinly.

 

[RogerM]

Roger, any chance of an update on this?

As an aside, the Cetol Filter 7 is supposed to be used over a primer (HLS). Is that what you did, can you remember? Sikkens say to expect 5 to 7 years before re-coating on hardwood joinery, so long as the initial coatings were applied thinly.

Yep - I used Light Oak HLS as a first coat for both the Sikkens Walnut and Light Oak Filter 7. I didn't degrease the surfaces with meths first though, which perhaps I should have done. This test has now been running for 4 years, including 4 years in full sun, and all the finishes are beginning to show significant UV damage. If this was exterior joinery I would be wanting to recoat all of them by now. In almost every case the top edge is breaking down. I have used Sikkens Filter 7 on my Iroko bifold doors, and find that in the real world, they need to be treated with 2 coats of Sikkens Light Oak Filter 7 every 3rd year, which keeps them looking like new.

There is no clear winner as to which species of wood takes a finish best.

The clear loser is Sadolin Classic (2nd row) on all wood types. It is also the cheapest by a significant margin.

Sadolin Ultra (top row) is standing up well on all 4 woods (Iroko, Oak, Sapele and treated softwood.)

Sikkens Filter 7 (Walnut) (3rd row) is standing up well on Iroko, but less so on the Oak (column 2).

Likewise, the Sikkens Filter 7 (Light Oak) (Row 4) is also standing up well on the Iroko (Column 1) and Light Oak (column 2) but less so on the Sapele and softwood.

The bottom row is untreated and left as a control.

 

[Mike G]

Brilliant, thanks Roger.

 

[AJB Temple]

I have a complete room to do externally: two double doors and about 10 windows. All hardwood of some unknown breed. It is south facing and a rotten job to do as there is so much cutting in.

I am tempted to paint it with Mike's favourite paint, but the Sadolin ultra looks as if it lasts. Would you recommend it as a finish?

 

[eezageeza]

What a great thread! I'm mid-way through a major refurb of our exterior joinery, using Sadolin, so its particularly pertinent for me.

For absolute clarity, the first row of samples in the first post is labelled as Sadolin Ultra, but more recent posts refer to this row as Sadolin Extra.

I can't see an 'Ultra' currently on the Sadolin website, so assume the Extra Durable product they currently list has replaced it, or that it was simply a typo in the first post ?

For what its worth, I'm following the Sadolin advice to the letter - sand to bare wood, degrease with meths, then 2 coats of Classic, and 2 coats of Extra Durable.

And I've got 22 windows and doors to go at, so I hope its going to stick !!

 

[RogerM]

What a great thread! I'm mid-way through a major refurb of our exterior joinery, using Sadolin, so its particularly pertinent for me.

For absolute clarity, the first row of samples in the first post is labelled as Sadolin Ultra, but more recent posts refer to this row as Sadolin Extra.

I can't see an 'Ultra' currently on the Sadolin website, so assume the Extra Durable product they currently list has replaced it, or that it was simply a typo in the first post ?

For what its worth, I'm following the Sadolin advice to the letter - sand to bare wood, degrease with meths, then 2 coats of Classic, and 2 coats of Extra Durable.

And I've got 22 windows and doors to go at, so I hope its going to stick !!

You are quite right! The original post referring to Ultra is correct, so I have corrected the typo in my previous post. However, infuriatingly, Sadolin Ultra is no longer available and has been superseded by Sadolin Extra Durable Clearcoat. As it's name implies, this is a minimally pigmented treatment which can be used on its own or over previously stained wood. For new work, it is designed to be used over a Sadolin Classic pigment of your choice.

So does Extra Durable Clearcoat perform as well as the Ultra? Who knows - that's not what is being tested here. A thread on the Yachting and Boating World Forum mentions it, and ellicited the response from Sadolin by email

"Thank you for your email. Unfortunately Sadolin Ultra was deleted from our range 3 years ago with no replacement. I am sorry we have been unable to assist you on this occasion, should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us. "

However, as a premium product from a premium brand, I would be disappointed if it didn't perform at least as well.

I have a complete room to do externally: two double doors and about 10 windows. All hardwood of some unknown breed. It is south facing and a rotten job to do as there is so much cutting in.

I am tempted to paint it with Mike's favourite paint, but the Sadolin ultra looks as if it lasts. Would you recommend it as a finish?

Adrian - on the face of it, there is not much to choose between Sadolin Ultra and Sikkens Filter 7 - but that is no longer a choice you have to make given that Sadolin Ultra is no longer marketed. Your choice would appear to be between Sikkens Filter 7 and Sadolin Extra Durable Clearcoat, either as a stand-alone product or over a Sadolin Classic colour of your choice.

[youtubessl]_nHTr0lUmoc[/youtubessl]

I have used The Sikkens Filter 7 Light Oak on my iroko bifold doors since I built and installed them 9.5 years ago, and includes 10 summers. They are in partial sun rather than full sun, and I have found that they need a single maintenance coat every 3rd year. This has kept them looking more or less as smart as when they were first installed, and maintenance coats are easy. Just wipe with a piece of 240 grit sandpaper or Abranet, wash off and paint.





With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had thoroughly degreased the test samples with meths before applying each product, but not enough to make me want to set up a new multi year test. I feel that this may have helped prevent some of the flaking that has taken place.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks. Very helpful thread.