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Simple door

RogerS

RogerS

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And off to pastures new
I've actually made some sawdust.

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I've got five to make, this being the first. Using poplar from British Hardwoods. Have a sneaking feeling I may (probably) have cocked up the order. Time will tell.

I knocked up a simple spreadsheet to give me my cutting list. Just enter width and height.

Screenshot 2026-01-11 at 17.38.33.png

I spent ages over it and had a nagging feeling that I'd made a big error. To prove my spreadsheet I even resorted to a SketchUp drawing to validate it. Height for the panels was spot on and so off I went to cut them. The only space I have to cut them is outdoors on some Kingspan and the Festool track saw. So good weather is essential and I took the opportunity a few days ago. What a pity that I didn't use SketchUp to check the width. The CockUp Fairy was alive and well and there was a bug in the spreadsheet. Too narrow. Might be OK if there is a narrower door but it is a big mistake.
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Good to see you're able to start making what's needed. Pity about the width but narrow by how much? Is there a possibility of being able to fit a couple of slim (?) pieces either side if you don't ha e a narrower opening to accommodate it? Ive done something like that with a couple of the doors here.
 
Well I’m not surprised really Roger, you’ve put your trust in those they’re electrolitics, should have stuck with a pencil and paper. A sketch clarifies it in your mind too.
Set up columns
Item- length - width - thickness - nr of.
Stile 1630. 285? ? 15

Stile width seems weird?
 
The photo seems to show the top & bottom rails being of different widths but your sheet states 240, this must be the camera angle.

Your say the door height is 1870 but if the rails are both 240 and the central stile is 1630 then this gives 2110 !

The best tool for this task is a simple 2D CAD program, I use QCAD and it is brilliant at this sort of layout, probably ten minutes to draw that door to scale and any errors will stand out. It has saved me from numerous cock ups in the past where you are convinced you have got everything bang on but overlooked something, easily done as we have all done it.
 
Cabinetman said:
Well I’m not surprised really Roger, you’ve put your trust in those they’re electrolitics, should have stuck with a pencil and paper. A sketch clarifies it in your mind too.
Set up columns
Item- length - width - thickness - nr of.
Stile 1630. 285? ? 15

Stile width seems weird?
Click to expand...
Camera angle, Ian
 
Spectric said:
The photo seems to show the top & bottom rails being of different widths but your sheet states 240, this must be the camera angle.

Your say the door height is 1870 but if the rails are both 240 and the central stile is 1630 then this gives 2110 !

The best tool for this task is a simple 2D CAD program, I use QCAD and it is brilliant at this sort of layout, probably ten minutes to draw that door to scale and any errors will stand out. It has saved me from numerous cock ups in the past where you are convinced you have got everything bang on but overlooked something, easily done as we have all done it.
Click to expand...
It is the camera angle
 
I had assumed it was the camera that made the rails look different and used the figure of 240, but with ( 2 x 240 ) + 1630 = 2110 which is more than the door height of 1870.

Excel can be more than just a spreadsheet, I also use it's basic drawing features to provide clear context for calculations and help visualise the problem I am solving, example is this to help work out motor switching sequences in relation to magnetic fields, all done in Excel.

1768219505152.png
 
You've got me a tad confused... What's the width of the individual stiles Roger? I'm not seeing that measurement in your cutting list - although I see a 285 measurement for 'stiles'...

I'm reading the 1st and 2nd sizes in your list as *total width* of door = 840 &  *total height* of door is 1870... height is fixed at 1870...?

Take away the *length* of the rails your left with 190 for the 2 side stiles? Divide by 2 = 95... 2 stiles 95 wide X 1870 long. You only need to take into account the 2 side stiles - not the central one - for the total width as the central one joins into the top/bottom rails - so no bearing on width given in your list as 840.

The door stiles and rails are joined by mortice and tenon? Or something else? Have you allowed for the length of the joint on the rails if M&T...? You haven't said why you think it's too narrow and by how much - or given the width measurement for the door you've made and shown us if it's ended up narrower than 840.

If, as in your reply to Ian, your dividing 285 into 3 for 3 stiles that could just be the problem... still make the 3 stiles 95 wide but... 🤔 I'm thinking it's the central stile/95 confusing things 🙃
 
Accipiter said:
What's the width of the individual stiles
Click to expand...

1768229525480.png

But this is where the data is not clear, when you think about it a 285mm wide stile is a tad large so what this really means is the TOTAL width of three stiles is 285, so each stile is 95mm.

You normally let the spreadsheet do all the work, only enter known measurements like stile width = 95 and then let Excel do the sums where needed.

The next question would be what is the width of those top and bottom rails, assuming the same logic then they are 120 so 240 + 1630 = 1870 which is correct.

Now for the width, 840 - 285 = 555. The width between the outer stile and the inner style will be 555 / 2 = 277.5 compared to the figure of 267.5 on the sheet but if you are using two panels into slots so they sit central then you need some extra, maybe 10mm each side.
 
Spectric said:
View attachment 38392

But this is where the data is not clear, when you think about it a 285mm wide stile is a tad large so what this really means is the TOTAL width of three stiles is 285, so each stile is 95mm.

You normally let the spreadsheet do all the work, only enter known measurements like stile width = 95 and then let Excel do the sums where needed.

The next question would be what is the width of those top and bottom rails, assuming the same logic then they are 120 so 240 + 1630 = 1870 which is correct.

Now for the width, 840 - 285 = 555. The width between the outer stile and the inner style will be 555 / 2 = 277.5 compared to the figure of 267.5 on the sheet but if you are using two panels into slots so they sit central then you need some extra, maybe 10mm each side.
Click to expand...
Spot on
 
Accipiter said:
You've got me a tad confused... What's the width of the individual stiles Roger? I'm not seeing that measurement in your cutting list - although I see a 285 measurement for 'stiles'...

I'm reading the 1st and 2nd sizes in your list as *total width* of door = 840 &  *total height* of door is 1870... height is fixed at 1870...?

Take away the *length* of the rails your left with 190 for the 2 side stiles? Divide by 2 = 95... 2 stiles 95 wide X 1870 long. You only need to take into account the 2 side stiles - not the central one - for the total width as the central one joins into the top/bottom rails - so no bearing on width given in your list as 840.

The door stiles and rails are joined by mortice and tenon? Or something else? Have you allowed for the length of the joint on the rails if M&T...? You haven't said why you think it's too narrow and by how much - or given the width measurement for the door you've made and shown us if it's ended up narrower than 840.

If, as in your reply to Ian, your dividing 285 into 3 for 3 stiles that could just be the problem... still make the 3 stiles 95 wide but... 🤔 I'm thinking it's the central stile/95 confusing things 🙃
Click to expand...
LOL. My bad ...I really did create (badly) the spreadsheet for my eyes and so there are many measurements combined. For example, the three stiles equates to 285mm as the stiles are 95mm.

You're right. The overall dimensions of the door are 840mm wide and 1870mm high. I use the spreadsheet to tell me the dimensions of the two infill panels which, as Spectric correctly suggests, go into slots in the rails and stiles. I've corrected the spreadsheet.

No M&T's...too much like hard work. Many 10mm Dominoes and, chaps, please let's not get into an argument about M&T's vs Domino's :)
 
Are M&T's and Domino's really just six of one and half a dozen of the other ! A tenon is a tenon whether it is loose or fixed and getting the job done has to take priority in many cases especially where you are not making fine furniture, it is just a simple door.
 
RogerS said:
LOL. My bad ...I really did create (badly) the spreadsheet for my eyes and so there are many measurements combined. For example, the three stiles equates to 285mm as the stiles are 95mm.

You're right. The overall dimensions of the door are 840mm wide and 1870mm high. I use the spreadsheet to tell me the dimensions of the two infill panels which, as Spectric correctly suggests, go into slots in the rails and stiles. I've corrected the spreadsheet.

No M&T's...too much like hard work. Many 10mm Dominoes and, chaps, please let's not get into an argument about M&T's vs Domino's :)
Click to expand...
Okay Roger... I *totally understand*, and agree, that M&T are too much like hard work 🤣😂... 😎... but... 🤔... what does the door you made actually measure in width for you to 'think' it is too narrow if it doesn't measure 840?

If you made the *outer* stiles as 2 @ 95 (= 190) and the rails as 650 you've got your width of 840: 650 + 190 = 840.

*To me*, this is my working out 😉🙃... the central stile and panels are irrelevant for the *total width* and height of the door.

I understand the need to work out the panel sizes if you're slotting them in to the stiles by 10mm - with a central style - but, as you originally posted saying you thought you'd made the door too narrow... ???

My thinking - using pen and paper 😉...
The outer stiles *inner* measure, after the 10 rebate/slot, would be 85 each (95 total width).
The central stile would have an inner measure, after the slot/rebate, of 75 (10 each side for the slot/rebate) but would still be 95 wide. As it's in the middle of the door it is still irrelevant in respect of the total *width* and height.

I make the panel width 297.5 each (x2 panels) not 267.5 as in your spreadsheet.

Rails are 650 long ÷ 2 to get the centre = 325.
Take away the half of the 95 of the central stile (= 47.5 ) from 325 = 277.5.
Add 20 (2 x 10) for the rebates = 297.5....
haven't worked out the height because you mentioned you throught the door was too narrow.
If you've made for the size of panels in your list (in the opening post) then it is too narrow... by 30mm... the difference of your panel size and the one I've got.

I hadn't read the reply from @Spectric before presenting my workings out but see he's got to the same as me 👍EDIT... I got to the same as Spectric - apologies 🙏
 
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No, my apologies..I’ve just re-read my OP and can see where the confusion came in. I was referring to the panels. Not the actual door
 
So slight detour making some shelves for SWMBO to paint hence not much progress of late.

But now the dilemma. Double checked the door frame and realise it’s bowed out in the middle on both sides. Now as I understand it the right way to sort this is to offer the ‘made’ door up to the frame, pencil round the frame and plane off the necessary. That implies a complete door actually made up. And therein lies my problem.

The all-up weight of the door is about 20kg and that is too heavy for me to carry up the stairs. If they were a straight run and if they were wider then it would be doable. But they are narrow and have a tight 180 degree turn at the top. It’s bad enough getting our bodies round safely as the treads in the turn go down to nowt on the inside radius. A bad slip or fall just waiting to happen on a daily basis.

So it seems to me that the only way is to make it on a floor upstairs but that has a problem let alone actually finding that size of empty floor. How can I check it is in wind? On my assembly bench (now clearly redundant) it would be easy to use winding sticks but on the floor? No chance.

So my current plan is the hold the two outer stiles one at a time vertical against their respective door jamb and get SWMBO to scribe it with block and pencil (badly) then I plane as needed. Assemble the door on the floor. Run some Tongue-Tite screws through the rails etc and into the Domino’s thus keeping the door solidly together. Drag into position. Offer up and wedge it in place while the glue goes off. The upside being that it will adopt to any wind there is in the frame.

I will sleep on this as I’ve well had enough for today
 
RogerS said:
.... the stairs. If they were a straight run and if they were wider then it would be doable. But they are narrow and have a tight 180 degree turn at the top. It’s bad enough getting our bodies round safely as the treads in the turn go down to nowt on the inside radius. A bad slip or fall just waiting to happen on a daily basis....
Click to expand...
You're a braver individual than me , committing yourself to that daily hazard, I have enough anguish when visiting a fairly modern household that has a 6 step minimalist code rise and way straight run without handrail. (can't even lean on the walls as owner has pictures mounted on them.)
 
RogerS said:
So slight detour making some shelves for SWMBO to paint hence not much progress of late.

But now the dilemma. Double checked the door frame and realise it’s bowed out in the middle on both sides. Now as I understand it the right way to sort this is to offer the ‘made’ door up to the frame, pencil round the frame and plane off the necessary. That implies a complete door actually made up. And therein lies my problem.

The all-up weight of the door is about 20kg and that is too heavy for me to carry up the stairs. If they were a straight run and if they were wider then it would be doable. But they are narrow and have a tight 180 degree turn at the top. It’s bad enough getting our bodies round safely as the treads in the turn go down to nowt on the inside radius. A bad slip or fall just waiting to happen on a daily basis.

So it seems to me that the only way is to make it on a floor upstairs but that has a problem let alone actually finding that size of empty floor. How can I check it is in wind? On my assembly bench (now clearly redundant) it would be easy to use winding sticks but on the floor? No chance.

So my current plan is the hold the two outer stiles one at a time vertical against their respective door jamb and get SWMBO to scribe it with block and pencil (badly) then I plane as needed. Assemble the door on the floor. Run some Tongue-Tite screws through the rails etc and into the Domino’s thus keeping the door solidly together. Drag into position. Offer up and wedge it in place while the glue goes off. The upside being that it will adopt to any wind there is in the frame.

I will sleep on this as I’ve well had enough for today
Click to expand...
I could come round and give you hand to carry it upstairs.
 
Can’t you find some “eggbox and thin ply” second hand doors on facebook marketplace and use those for templates to sort out the crooked frames?
These are usually very lightweight, once you have sorted the frames you have cutting / glue up tables to make the proper ones on.
I can see several options within ten miles, and I can’t imagine our area is unique.
 
Malc2098 said:
I could come round and give you hand to carry it upstairs.
Click to expand...
That’s very kind of you Malc but I will have others to do upstairs and I would like to try and be self sufficient as there are many other projects coming down the line where I would welcome your help (y)
 
Knock up a quick and dirty pair of sawhorses and level them with shims on the floor, and then glue your door on those upstairs?
 
Dan has hit the nail on the head as I have a couple of dirt cheap Workmates..bought new..under £20 each. So duly taken upstairs. Nothing like a lot of space to work in, eh ? :eek:

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I had to buy another pair of these. I already have a pair but they have been declared SITG (Somewhere In The Garage)

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One major learning curve has been not to keep stopping and starting. To focus on just one thing at a time and not get side-tracked with doctor's appointments, chasing up delivery companies, ordering stuff for the next projects etc etc. Especially if one's short-term memory has given up the ghost.

Case in point. I needed to trim the overall width of the door a fair bit before glue-up and so cut a smidge of both ends of the rails. It had to be both ends to keep the door panel widths balanced. And, of course, needed to re-plunge the Domino's which necessitated getting the machine out of the box again and setting it all up again.....Ah the joys of working in a place that has no spare room for anything. You have to put stuff away all the time as there is nowhere to put it. Viz the photos above. Or this room, for example.

But at least I remembered to trim the width of the panels as well to accommodate the shortened rails.

20260124_112130.jpg

That was several days ago and then other events crashed in and the project put on hold. Picking it up again a couple of days ago I thought it would be a good idea to pin the outer stiles and rails together using small squares of spare panelling and then offer the door up to the frame. Clearly cocked up my measurements (again) and decided that I needed to trim some more off.

So I did. All from one side. (See what I mean about stopping, starting and a duff short-term memory. Simply not in the groove - literally and metaphorically). And that's when during the glue-up I realised that one of the panels was too big. But I was committed. Fortune smiled, however, and I left off the last outer stile until the morning.

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So it's all tickety-boo. Um, actually no, as somehow I failed to realise/measure/think about/engage brain and check the angle between the top of the frame and the uprights. So I now need a triangular fillet to go on top of the upper rail to fill a rather large gap. But even if I checked it, not having any longer the wherewithal to prep wood easily , nor a stock of wood available, I would still have had to add that triangle. Hey ho.

And I thought it might be rather fun to show you our stairs

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Riser heights not constant, either, to add to the enjoyment
 
I can sympathise re the stairs. My daughters house is similar. She ordered a very thick king size mattress without considering how it was going to go up the stairs. Her partner has a bad back and there was no room for three people so with lots of ratchet straps to bend the mattress, me pulling from above and her pushing from below it took about 1/2 and hour of considerable effort to get it up. After which I had to have a lie down.
 
RogerS said:
But they are narrow and have a tight 180 degree turn at the top. It’s bad enough getting our bodies round safely as the treads in the turn go down to nowt on the inside radius. A bad slip or fall just waiting to happen on a daily basis.
Click to expand...
They are dangerous looking stairs, I am sure with some ingenuity Roger that you could modify them so you have a platform in the middle where the stair treads change direction so instead of that continous spiral you have two sets. I can just imagine an engineer from Stanah trying to fit a stair lift ! So next project in the pipe line Roger, that obstruction will hamper anything you want to do upstairs.
 
When I were a lad, I performed at the Magic Circle headquarters in Bloomsbury. It was a fantastic adventure for a 17-year-old boy from the Shires.
They have a museum there, of all sorts of magic memorabilia and paraphanalia and all sorts of other -bilias.
It is accessed by a staircase. A lethal staircase.
I can't find a picture of it, but there is a reference to it now being a "helical staircase". It's not what I remember, they may well have changed it in the last 51 years.
The staircase I remember is a split flight of stairs. Imagine a normal staircase with double-height risers, sawn in two from top to bottom and then slid, offset to give normal riser height. You have to take each half-tread at a time. Bonkers, of course.
But definitely characterful...
...and lethal.
S
 
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Spectric said:
They are dangerous looking stairs, I am sure with some ingenuity Roger that you could modify them so you have a platform in the middle where the stair treads change direction so instead of that continous spiral you have two sets. I can just imagine an engineer from Stanah trying to fit a stair lift ! So next project in the pipe line Roger, that obstruction will hamper anything you want to do upstairs.
Click to expand...
Afraid not. Mike G has very kindly considered it and done some drawings etc but it can’t be done without a HUMUNGOUS amount of wall shifting. Which ain’t going to happen

Think about it. You would have the height of the rise from at least two steps. That then has to be incorporated in either the top flight…eating into a narrow landing thus even more dangerous…or extending the bottom flight into a wall and through into the garden:(
 
Steve Maskery said:
The staircase I remember is a split flight of stairs. Imagine a normal staircase with double-height risers, sawn in two from top to bottom and then slid, offset to give normal riser height. You have to take each half-tread at a time. Bonkers, of course.
But definitely characterful...
...and lethal.
Click to expand...
This sort of thing?

From James Newlands, The Carpenter's Assistant, 1860.

IMG_20260124_201913248.jpg

IMG_20260124_201938947.jpg
 
 
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