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Sliding Sash window conversion?

meccarroll

Nordic Pine
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Hi all my friend's son has sliding sash windows the sashes are rotten but the boxes are said to be ok, he wants to know if he can keep the original boxes and replace the sashes using double glazing?

Has anyone done this conversion keeping the original boxes? Any info would be appreciated. Mark
 
You can make new sashes with DG in (assuming your building is not listed) but 20mm might be a squeeze and 12mm might not be very effective. Either way however, you will need to adjust the sash weights as dg units will be heavier than 4mm (or 2mm if old) single glazing.
 
Yes, it's definitely possible. We've had some of ours done that way, by an excellent local joinery firm, M&P. Very similar sight lines, good detailing and original cast iron weights swapped for lead ones. However, they have all the work they ever need here in Bristol. Where are you, or rather your friend's son?

One snag though; to achieve the required U-value in our DG units while keeping them slim, ours are filled with argon. These were the last argon filled units our supplier was going to fit, as the price of the gas had doubled for future orders.
 
It can be done, the biggest concern would be because you're doubling the weight of the glass you will need a heavier weight which you may struggle to fit in the box. Typically on the older windows round cast iron weights are used and you can fit a square steel or lead weight which gives you more weight for the space it occupies as opposed to round weights. I have seen people jacket old cast iron weights with roofing lead, but this is a bit of a bodge way of doing it.

You can get 12mm krypton-filled units with an 8mm sightline around the perimeter so that they suit traditional sashes, but these are very temperamental and don't have the best service life, you'll be very lucky if you don't have one fail within a couple of years or less. I prefer 16mm units for such work but you have a larger sightline which requires a 15mm rebate which may look out of place, and also you need to produce plant-on bars stuck on with double sided tape to cover duplex bars inside the glass, rather than traditional glazing bars as because of the rebate depth requirement your glazing bars will become 36mm rather than the traditional 18-22mm.

If you want to go for 24mm units for the full benefit of double glazing, you can rebate the faces of the sashes so that they project past the inner and outer linings of the sash box, so it would be ~55mm sash fitting into a ~44mm run because you've rebated the sides and top of the sash to suit. One of the biggest benefits you can achieve when replacing sashes is adding draught-sealing if there isn't any existing on the sashes, I use the Deventer sash flipper on the sides of the sash, Aquamac 21 on the top rail, bottom rail, and across the grain on the edge of the sash near the bottom rail on the bottom sash and at the horn on the top sash so no draughts run up the side of the sash and the pulley hole, and Aquamac 63 along the meeting rail.
 
You can make new sashes with DG in (assuming your building is not listed) but 20mm might be a squeeze and 12mm might not be very effective. Either way however, you will need to adjust the sash weights as dg units will be heavier than 4mm (or 2mm if old) single glazing.
Thank you for the reply Steve, I've been away and had no access to my laptop so sorry for the late reply. I assume it can be done but as I have only made single glazed sliders I was looking for pointers and looks like I have some now. Mark
 
Yes, it's definitely possible. We've had some of ours done that way, by an excellent local joinery firm, M&P. Very similar sight lines, good detailing and original cast iron weights swapped for lead ones. However, they have all the work they ever need here in Bristol. Where are you, or rather your friend's son?

One snag though; to achieve the required U-value in our DG units while keeping them slim, ours are filled with argon. These were the last argon filled units our supplier was going to fit, as the price of the gas had doubled for future orders.
Thanks Andy, my friend has been a site manager (still is) on a couple of building sites where I was employed to made new sliding sashes so he is aware I can make joinery and is seeing if I would do the work for his son. I have maca host of machinery etc but just looking for advice really as I have not made any double glazed sliding sashes at all, never mind ones to fit it a 45mm channel so looking for advice. Is there any possibility you could advise on the costings at all as I'm really bad at pricing? Mark
 
It can be done, the biggest concern would be because you're doubling the weight of the glass you will need a heavier weight which you may struggle to fit in the box. Typically on the older windows round cast iron weights are used and you can fit a square steel or lead weight which gives you more weight for the space it occupies as opposed to round weights. I have seen people jacket old cast iron weights with roofing lead, but this is a bit of a bodge way of doing it.

You can get 12mm krypton-filled units with an 8mm sightline around the perimeter so that they suit traditional sashes, but these are very temperamental and don't have the best service life, you'll be very lucky if you don't have one fail within a couple of years or less. I prefer 16mm units for such work but you have a larger sightline which requires a 15mm rebate which may look out of place, and also you need to produce plant-on bars stuck on with double sided tape to cover duplex bars inside the glass, rather than traditional glazing bars as because of the rebate depth requirement your glazing bars will become 36mm rather than the traditional 18-22mm.

If you want to go for 24mm units for the full benefit of double glazing, you can rebate the faces of the sashes so that they project past the inner and outer linings of the sash box, so it would be ~55mm sash fitting into a ~44mm run because you've rebated the sides and top of the sash to suit. One of the biggest benefits you can achieve when replacing sashes is adding draught-sealing if there isn't any existing on the sashes, I use the Deventer sash flipper on the sides of the sash, Aquamac 21 on the top rail, bottom rail, and across the grain on the edge of the sash near the bottom rail on the bottom sash and at the horn on the top sash so no draughts run up the side of the sash and the pulley hole, and Aquamac 63 along the meeting rail.
Well that's about as good as it gets when you want advice! I think I will have to read your reply a couple more time before I fully digest all of the information but it all sounds very comprehensive and very detailed so I am extremely grateful to you for sparing the time to help. Really appreciate the comments. Regards Mark
 
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