Small workshop

[MY63]

I have spent a total of 10 minutes outside today I don't think it has got above zero at all. Baltic we call it.
Even with cold weather gear on I have to say I gave up.
I did take the covers off and think about where the vents are going to go.
There should be pictures but no flickr today.

 

[RogerS]

I have spent a total of 10 minutes outside today I don't think it has got above zero at all. Baltic we call it.
.....

But some folk are still wearing shorts up Grainger Street :lol:

Seriously, I feel for you. I'd not want to be outside.

 

[MY63]

Don't worry about me Roger the nerve damage to my right hand makes it incredibly sensitive so work is stopped until a warmer day.
I have been kicking myself for ordering the sill plate timber at 2.4m not allowing for the overlap joint they should have been 2.6m I mention this in the hope it prevents someone else making the same error.
This is the picture I wanted to show yesterday.

2019-01-23_08-37-11 by my0771, on Flickr

I have not placed vents at the front I was concerned about having a vent under the doors. This configuration of vents will also resolve my problem with the timber being short. The vents are the same size as the timber so I will have to cut the timber to accommodate them.

If I cut the 3.6m to 2.6m and place the vents 1m from the ends leaving me 1.2m in the middle.
I was concerned about fixing these in place so I am going to screw them to the upper plate until the mortar has gone off. This will negate the need for sawing or chiseling the plate once it its in place.
Writing things down helps me to order them in my mind and hopefully someone will spot the mistakes before I make them.

 

[Doug]

Couldn’t you just double up on the sole plate, adding another layer of timber would mean you could form lap joints by just overlapping the timber & lose the vents in the upper piece whilst still getting a full bearing on the lintels with the timber below? You cold bed your bottom pieces down & then screw the upper pieces to the bottom.

 

[MY63]

Thanks Doug
Nice workshop and Instagram it is refreshing to see an English workshop most seen to be in the USA.
Unfortunately I am kind of working within permitted development rules.
I was planning to use the bottom part of the frame to provide the temporary support until it is joined permanently.
I hope that makes sense.
Thanks

 

[Mike G]

Don't worry about me Roger the nerve damage to my right hand makes it incredibly sensitive so work is stopped until a warmer day.
I have been kicking myself for ordering the sill plate timber at 2.4m not allowing for the overlap joint they should have been 2.6m I mention this in the hope it prevents someone else making the same error.
This is the picture I wanted to show yesterday.

2019-01-23_08-37-11 by my0771, on Flickr

I have not placed vents at the front I was concerned about having a vent under the doors. This configuration of vents will also resolve my problem with the timber being short. The vents are the same size as the timber so I will have to cut the timber to accommodate them.

If I cut the 3.6m to 2.6m and place the vents 1m from the ends leaving me 1.2m in the middle.
I was concerned about fixing these in place so I am going to screw them to the upper plate until the mortar has gone off. This will negate the need for sawing or chiseling the plate once it its in place.
Writing things down helps me to order them in my mind and hopefully someone will spot the mistakes before I make them.

A joint at the corner isn't critical, so long as you do the upper sole plate the other way (ie have the ones on the short sides of the workshop extend all the way to the end. You can then fix these down onto the ends of the long plates below, as well as the short ones, thus tying the two together.

 

[Doug]

Thanks Doug
Nice workshop and Instagram it is refreshing to see an English workshop most seen to be in the USA.

Thanks Michael, there are quite a few English workshops on Instagram but you are right there are very many more from USA & whilst some leave a lot to be desired there are some very good ones.

Unfortunately I am kind of working within permitted development rules.
I was planning to use the bottom part of the frame to provide the temporary support until it is joined permanently.
I hope that makes sense.
Thanks

From reading what Mike G has just written it sounds like you’ll be doing basically what I was suggesting, though I might not have expressed it so well.

Cheers

 

[MY63]

Yes indeed Doug I think you are both saying similar things.
I decided to cut the timber to accommodate the vents I also cut lap joints on all corners. With my limitations both physical and in knowledge this was the easiest way for me to work.
My plan is to fix the cut timbers to the bottom pieces of the frame which are sitting on top of them in the picture.
I am going to attach them to other timbers while the mortar goes off.

2019-01-24_06-39-32 by my0771, on Flickr

One of the timbers on the right in the picture is warped in two different directions I think this may need to be replaced.

 

[9fingers]

A good use of the odd twisted length of timber is to use it for noggins where usually the twist along a 350 ish length is negligible.

Bob

 

[MY63]

A good use of the odd twisted length of timber is to use it for noggins where usually the twist along a 350 ish length is negligible.

Bob

Sounds like a plan to me Bob

 

[MY63]

The weather forecast for tomorrow is dry and 8 to 10 degrees so I plan to make hay as they say.

Re checking what I need to lay the sole plate folding wedges come up I have googled how to make them but all of the responses talk about making them using a table saw which I don't have, I do have a band saw but it is not functional yet.
I do have a hand saw and plenty of 2x2 if anyone can give or direct me to a simple guide for making folding wedges.
Thanks

 

[Mike G]

It's just a pair of similar wedges. Quickly cut with an old fashioned hand saw if you haven't got access to a bandsaw.

 

[MY63]

Sorry I assumed folding wedges were a particular shape or angle.

 

[RogerS]

Sorry I assumed folding wedges were a particular shape or angle.

Well, you're right in that the angle is important in my experience. 1 in 7 or 1 in 10 works well.

 

[Mike G]

I'm not sure I see the need for any wedges. The time I advocate wedges is when sitting an entire panel direct onto the mortar bed (as I did in my workshop build). The weight of the panel and the awkward manoeuvering make it inevitable that you'll push all the mortar off the masonry, or squidge it down too thin at one end. But laying just a single piece of 4x2 onto mortar is dead easy, and wedges would be more of a nuisance than an asset.

 

[MY63]

Thanks Roger 1 in 10 was what I used.
Thanks for posting Mike I am ready to lay the mortar and read this while eating lunch so I will not use the wedges.
I ordered the floor joists @2.4m which came slightly over clearly they wont fit and will need a clearance for the hangers should it be 5mm either side or 10mm or more?

 

[TrimTheKing]

5mm more than enough at each end. 5mm will probably suffice overall I imagine, the hangers are not made of thick metal.

 

[MY63]

Thanks for that Mark popped in for a break
Mortar finished I am pretty sure this is the first time I have mixed and used mortar post mix is the closest I have come.

2019-01-25_01-45-35 by my0771, on Flickr

I think the left side in the picture is a little high I have tried tapping the timber with the shaft of my hammer but it will not move.

2019-01-25_01-46-26 by my0771, on Flickr

I can see why getting the lintels level and square was so important it made this part much easier.
Thanks

 

[Malc2098]

Proper Job!

Yeah, I had a couple of lopsided bubbles, too. I think it's the liquid on the other side is thicker.

 

[MY63]

Proper Job!

Yeah, I had a couple of lopsided bubbles, too. I think it's the liquid on the other side is thicker.

You are right there Malcolm I got rid of the other level because it had a wonky bubble I did try a few more love taps this afternoon without success I am afraid.
I set everything on the mortar timbers and vents.

I spent the rest of the afternoon cutting joists and studs 8 joists and 20 studs so far I set up my chop saw with a 3m makeshift cutting table I have 10 more studs and 2 joists to cut I miscounted the joists

Today’s questions
The galvanised steel plates that come as a coil do they wrap over both sides of the sole plate or just the inside.
I would like to have an overhang at the front and back as well as the sides I would like a large overhand on the front what is possible.
Thanks

 

[MY63]

I have had my insulation for a couple of weeks and still needed a can of foam and a gun.
Tool station had a metal one for £15 but it was sold out. B&Q had a plastic one for £7.50 and this metal one for £9.99.

2019-01-25_09-56-20 by my0771, on Flickr

It is metal feels robust. Bargin

 

[Mike G]

That is a bargain.

 

[RogerS]

Have you used one before, Michael ?

 

[MY63]

Not often you get a bargain at B&Q that is for sure the foam was £2 per can more and the cleaner was £3 more than tool station So I called in on the way home.

Have you used one before, Michael ?

No Roger I have not used one before there is an adjuster at the back to help regulate the flow. From reading what others have posted I understand less is more so I will take it slowly.

The weather forecast is for rain showers today and snow next week so there may be a delay.

 

[RogerS]

Most important rule - Don't forget to turn the valve off fully at the end of every session.

Slight dampness on the surfaces doesn't matter. In fact, it makes it cure better. If the temperature is really cold then placing the gun/foam container in front of a light bulb to gently warm the can/gun/contents up helps.

Wear gloves and goggles. If you do get some on your hands then you can clean it off with a bit of cleaner on a rag or paper towel(unless you have sensitive skin in which case don't).

Don't fret too much about it building up around the nozzle. You can let the stuff dry and then cut bits off roughly with a knife. Don't fret about getting it pristine. You will know if it needs cutting off a bit more as it won't flow out very easily.

Throw away that little bit of plastic tubing they might have included. It will pop off anyway and when you least expect or want it to.

Make sure the can is completely empty before undoing it. Clean the gun after each can. You only need a bit of a squirt out the front.

Be VERY VERY careful screwing either the can or cleaner on the gun as it can get cross-threaded if you're not careful. On the other hand you need to be determined to screw the can on as part way through the screwing in process,you're starting to break the seal and so if you're not brave and courageous you can end up getting a lot of foam all over the place.

Each time you remove either can or cleaner, double check that none of the plastic from the can/cleaner connector has snapped off and is still inside the thread of the gun. If you don't then be prepared for foam EVERYWHERE :twisted:

Remember Rule 1 - always turn the gun off fully at the end of using it. I tend to turn mine off even if I know I'm going to be using it again in a couple of minutes.

 

[Malc2098]

:text-+1:

It's no problem to turn it off and back on again a few minutes later.

 

[Mike G]

If you ever have an accident, then just chuck the gun and can of foam on the floor and walk away. Don't come back until everything has set hard. Trying to clean up overspill or accidents when wet/ liquid results in the most god awful mess.

 

[RogerS]

If you ever have an accident, then just chuck the gun and can of foam on the floor and walk away. Don't come back until everything has set hard. Trying to clean up overspill or accidents when wet/ liquid results in the most god awful mess.

:text-goodpost:

 

[MY63]

Thanks for the helpful advice I am going to re read this page when I start the insulation.

I have now fixed the soleplate to the lintels and have turned my attention to the joist hangers when I placed the vents at 1m and 2.6m I thought I was safe from any issues.

How wrong was I I measured 1m in from each end and cut the timber fitted the vents which are 230mm long. I have always planned on having an extra joist at the door end where I am going to have my stamping area.

My problem is I cant make 400mm centres as per Mikes plan work there is always one joist in the middle of a vent.
Help please

 

[9fingers]

If I may say so, it seems to me that you are slavishly following some things in too much detail rather than thinking about what is important or going to make life easy for your build.

Generally joist spacing is nominal 400/600 according to the design but in practise it need to fit in with what is going to be fixed to it. measure your sheet size noting if it is metric or imperial and use that knowledge to place the timber centred on the joint between the first sheet and the next one. remember that the first joist will possibly be overlapped 100% by the first sheet and the one about 4' (1.2m) away will be 50% covered but the first sheet and 50% by the next one.

Thus the gap between the first and second joist centres will be a little smaller (possibly 25mm) and then they will be 1/3 (nominal 400mm) of the sheet width until you get to the other end of the wall when the gap will be simply what is left over. In some cases this last gap will be less or more than the nominal 400 but say no more than 500 ish

Same process vertically for your noggins making sure you have no unsupported inter-sheet joints

For your own sanity, draw the centre lines of the timber on your sheets so you know where they are for fixing things and to get your nails/screws in nice straight lines.

HTH
Bob

 

[Malc2098]

I know this might sound super simple, but are the locations of the vents cast in stone, if you'll pardon the pun. Could they be moved to accommodate ease of even joist fitting?

 

[MY63]

Thanks Bob I understand the first part but I did not understand most of the rest. I plan on using chipboard T&G panels for the floor which are 600mm which will be laid at 90 degrees to the joists.
I have not ordered the sheet materials yet as I have limited space the garage is full to the rafters with free insulation.
As for the spacing 450mm worked out perfectly so I have made a start. Is there an easy way to hang the joist hangers should I pre bend them. Or attach them to the joists first. I have tried both and neither seems very effective.
Thanks Malcolm not stone but they are set in the mortar and the soleplate has been cut to size

Rain stopped play unfortunately.

 

[Malc2098]

Ah. I see.

 

[Mike G]

.......My problem is I cant make 400mm centres as per Mikes plan work there is always one joist in the middle of a vent.
Help please

What are you overall dimensions again. Save me ploughing through the thread searching....

 

[MY63]

Outside dimensions 3.6m x 2.8m 450mm centres works out exactly.
Part of my soleplate moved when I put the nail in I was holding it so I know it moved is this an issue do I need to start removing mortar and re do it.

 

[Mike G]

450 centres just won't work with the flooring, but as it is a small area it won't cost you a lot of wasted sheet material. If you want to do 450 C's, then that's fine. No problem. It isn't as if you are planning on having a half ton lathe in there!

I notice you have put 2 sole plates down. My drawing has the second plate as the bottom chord of the panels, so are you planning on a third plate, or are you building the panels in place vertically on the wall? How far out of position is the piece of wood which has moved?

 

[MY63]

The second plate in the picture is not fixed it was just there to help me to line things up they will indeed become the bottom chord of the panels. I have removed them now but work was interrupted by some heavy rain so I did not get to take any pictures.

The part of the soleplate that moved, moved about 10 mm and it went back in its original place but clearly it is not stuck to the mortar.

We are forecast for sleet and snow tomorrow which is just as well as I have some other stuff I really need to get done by Monday

 

[Mike G]

The mortar isn't there to stick the wood. It is a bed only, to level the wood and to protect the DPC. In fact, in the long run mortar doesn't stick to wood anyway. So, no, forget it. It's fine as it is.

 

[MY63]

Thanks Mike I am pleased about that I thought I may have to remove all of the mortar and start again.
I need to find a way to clamp the joists in place as holding the joist and using a hammer with the other hand is not an option for me as I don't have the strength in my right hand.
It is much colder this morning very windy but dry all I need is an extra layer and I am good to go.

 

[DaveL]

If it makes it easier for you, drill small holes for the nails to help guide them in where required.