Small workshop

[MY63]

Hello everyone I am currently planning to build a small workshop its main purpose is to be a new home for my leatherwork. I do have some woodworking tools and general tools that will also live there.
I will be replacing an existing shed that was here when we moved in 20 years ago and it was old then .
The workshop I have in mind will be 3.6 m x 2.4 m height wise I would like to stay under the 2.5 m planning limit I think I may have misunderstood this as rereading it there is reference to eaves height,
This would change my roof choice as I was planning a pent roof however if the rules refer to eaves height then I may change to a pitched roof, this would allow me some storage in the roof for larger hides.
If I keep it under 15 sq m I would also be able to build without involving the building inspector.
This does not mean I want to build a substandard workshop I want to have the best workshop possible for my limited budget.
I have been reading the posts here for some time and am itching to get started I have been delayed by the need to rebuild both sides of our garden fence following storm damage.

I have tried to design my workshop with Sketchup but I have struggled with it I much prefer a pencil and paper.
I am very much an average DIYer although I do have some physical limitations following a life changing accident some years ago.

For the base I am thinking of the concrete lintel as suggested by Mike G on a foundation of crushed stone
building up from there in wood as per Mike's plan.
I have spoken to my local timber merchant who is able to supply everything I need with the exception of the crushed stone and the roofing material.

My first questions are

Does the 2.5 m height restriction refer to the eaves or to the uppermost part of the roof?

What secures the concrete lintel to the base stone I ask this as laying mortar will be one of the tasks that I will find difficult given my limitations. I have limited use of my right hand / arm and although I have learned to do many things with my left hand trowel work may not be one of them.

If the lintels need to be fixed in place could I use something like post mix using some sort of shuttering.

I like to document my leatherwork on my blog so others may learn from me and I would like to do the same with this build both here and my own blog.

I would appreciate any advice

Michael

 

[Malc2098]

Good for you, Michael!

I don't think I can answer your technical questions, but this lot got me going to build my own workshop and I picked up a few skills on the way and a huge amount of knowledge, support and encouragement from these guys.

Someone will have answers and options for you shortly, I'm sure.

 

[RogerS]

.....
If I keep it under 15 sq m I would also be able to build without involving the building inspector.......

Isn't it 30 sq m ?

Edit:....


Yup.

If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed substantially of non-combustible materials.

 

[MY63]

.....
If I keep it under 15 sq m I would also be able to build without involving the building inspector.......

Isn't it 30 sq m ?

Edit:....


Yup.

If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed substantially of non-combustible materials.

Thanks Roger

I wonder if my Local Authority have different rules or I may be confusing building regs and Planning.
This is from their website..

"Small detached buildings (such as small garages and sheds) are exempt from Building Regulations when:
they are less than 15m2 in floor area
they contain no sleeping accommodation
any fixed electrical installations comply with the applicable Building Regulations requirements"

It is clear to me that I am confusing Planning and building regs.

So it will have to be a maximum height of 2.5 m as it will only be 1 m from the fence.

 

[9fingers]

Have a look in the Dropbox. There is a folder full of Permitted Development Rights stuff.

Bob

 

[MY63]

Have a look in the Dropbox. There is a folder full of Permitted Development Rights stuff.

Bob

Thanks Bob
I see where I went wrong the distance from the boundary fence is my limiting factor.
Overhead storage would have been nice however I would like some headroom inside so I think a pent style roof would be best. I can get creative with under bench storage for my leather some of it is sensitive to light and all f it must be kept dry.
Thanks
Michael

 

[Malc2098]

Just had a look at your wordpress site, Michael.

Your work looks stunning. I particularly like the camera shoulder strap and the repurposed cutlery box.

 

[Mike G]

.......What secures the concrete lintel to the base stone........

Gravity.

Ideally you would fix the lintels to each other at the corners, with a bracket screwed & plugged into the inside face of each lintel, but this isn't critical. It isn't critical because the timber fame you sit on the top of the lintels is strapped to them, and because the timber structure is fixed together at the corners and then fixed to the lintels, the whole thing should act as one, and be secure and sound.

I suppose if you were building a tall shed on a small footprint in a particularly exposed and windy location (such as the Orkneys, for instance), you might drive some reinforcing rods into the ground and strap them to the lintels, just to make sure the shed didn't blow over, but in ordinary circumstances gravity alone is plenty enough with a building like this.

I can also confirm that the Building Inspector won't be interested in your building unless it exceeds 30 sq metres, unless you are within a metre of the boundary or it contains living accommodation (a "habitable room"). You will however have to have the electrical work certified by an electrician. Many will allow you to do the work, and then just fit a consumer unit, inspect and test.

Good luck with your build, and there's always plenty of help here if you run into issues.

 

[MY63]

Thanks Malcolm I appreciate your compliment the camera strap was the first in a series but my friend who was helping with camera input has been unwell so the project has come to a halt for now.
Mike I very much welcome your input, I think I am about ready to start.
I am planning on using 4 x 2 for the studs and 6 x 2 for the joists or their regulated equivalent that is what the timber merchant called it.

I have done a basic drawing using cm for m to help me to work out the amount of timber to order but I am still unsure.
I plan to have double doors at one end and as large a window as I can find /scavenge / acquire on the tall side.
400 mm spacing for the joists and 600 mm for the studs a double plate on top of the frames and whatever Pent roof I can make without loosing too much height but with all the insulation and the correct air space between.

If there is a quick formula for working out the amount of timber required if not I am going to re read some of the builds on here and make more notes regarding doors and windows or and of course rooves.

Thanks for the input.
Michael

 

[Malc2098]

I was lousy at calculating timber and in the end I always over ordered, but have used much of what was over ordered both in and since the build.

You can never have enough 25x50 roofing battens. They got used as counter battens for my walls. They extended the depth of my roof (because the insulation seconds we're 120mm not 100mm). They got used as jigs all over the place. I've used 45x95 and 45x145 for chocking up stuff.

So if you can calculate to there or there abouts, add a bit. It will always be useful.

 

[MY63]

Thanks Malcolm I enjoyed reading your build.
I am trying to do some simple drawings to help me to work out what timber I require although I will be building some work benches inside so any left over timber will get used.

2018-10-28_11-51-23 by my0771, on Flickr

I am following Mike G's plan for use of lintels rather than a concrete base. so insert his details drawings here.
I was going with 100 mm roof insulation although I had a panic about internal headroom and reduced it to 75 mm I may revert to 100 mm.
I also need to consider overhangs for the roof.
Does everyone get the feeling that what they are planning is not big enough. I could go out to 3 m x 4 m this may drive me mad although I don't think I have far to go.
The more I read on here I think I really need a bandsaw.

As you can see any help appreciated

Michael

 

[RogerS]

Michael

Where in NE England are you ?

 

[Mike G]

Yep, Michael, you certainly need roof overhangs. Even 100mm will help a lot.

 

[MY63]

Michael

Where in NE England are you ?

Hi Roger I am 7 miles east of Newcastle upon Tyne 1.5 miles from the beach.

Yep, Michael, you certainly need roof overhangs. Even 100mm will help a lot.

I have to be honest I was more focused on the foundations and walls at this point, I had not really considered the roof structure as there are not that many examples of a pent roof.

 

[RogerS]

Michael

Where in NE England are you ?

Hi Roger I am 7 miles east of Newcastle upon Tyne 1.5 miles from the beach.

....

Ah, sensible man. You're in the dry part I'm not a million miles away from you due West..just off the A69 and very near Haltwhistle. If you're ever passing, you're very welcome to pop in.

 

[MY63]

Thanks for the invitation Roger if I am ever heading that way I will let you know.
Does anyone know if there is a workshop build with a pent roof listed on this site I have read many builds but I am currently reading Mike G’s extension build (page 38) of 118 it has s like a book.
Michael

 

[Coolhands]

My one?

 

[MY63]

My one?

Thanks I had read your thread but before you started the roof I am up to date now good work btw.

 

[MY63]

I have almost completed my timber list I think I have thought of most of the items I have read about here.
However I do have a couple of questions,
What size timber do I need to close off the ends of the roof space.
Insulation is there a particular type that I need for floor walls and roof and why is it so expensive.

 

[RogerS]

.....
Insulation is there a particular type that I need for floor walls and roof and why is it so expensive.

Try seconds.co.uk for cheaper insulation. Or any of the other 'seconds' outlets online such as eBay.

Where are you getting your timber from ? Lathams in Gateshead ?

 

[Rod]

I used Rockwool batts which are much cheaper

Rod

 

[Mike G]

I used Rockwool batts which are much cheaper......

So did I, but it is important to remember that they are approximately half as good an insulator as Celotex (other PIR insulation is available).

 

[MY63]

.....
Insulation is there a particular type that I need for floor walls and roof and why is it so expensive.

Try seconds.co.uk for cheaper insulation. Or any of the other 'seconds' outlets online such as eBay.

Where are you getting your timber from ? Lathams in Gateshead ?

Hi Roger

There is a small family owned timber merchants near me called Percy Hudson my Dad used to take me there when I was a child so I have always gone there. I have not really checked the prices with other suppliers but they are cheaper than the big stores and they are a local business.
47 x 100 c16 regularised is £1.80 per metre and 47 x 100 c16 is £2.71.

I looked at the insulation seconds on ebay and they are the same price as I can buy new locally I think if the mineral wool will work then I will get some prices. If it was for the house then I would go with the boards.
If I buy Kingspan insulation which is 1200 x 2400 for £46.50 it will cost £279 for the floor and roof which is ok.
They seem to think the insulation requires an air gap within the frame so in the walls they reccomend 75 mm kingspan with 25 mm air gap before the membrane.
I had assumed the idea was to fill the gap between the frames and have the air gap outside of that created by the additional timber and the cladding.

Incidentally they did have some expanded polystyrene 50 mm @ £10 for an 8 x 4 sheet.


Michael

 

[MY63]

Ok I have made a decision the supplier has told me they only stock concrete lintels in 1.2 and 1.8 m so my workshop is going to be 2.4m x 3.6m as per my original plan.
I am also going to use mineral wool for the insulation.
If my joists are 150 mm and the insulation is 100 mm what supports the insulation and does that prevent mice from moving in.
Thanks
Michael

 

[9fingers]

Ok I have made a decision the supplier has told me they only stock concrete lintels in 1.2 and 1.8 m so my workshop is going to be 2.4m x 3.6m as per my original plan.
I am also going to use mineral wool for the insulation.
If my joists are 150 mm and the insulation is 100 mm what supports the insulation and does that prevent mice from moving in.
Thanks
Michael

Don't forget to allow for the corners in the overall dimensions.
Possibly going to be 2.6 x 3.6 or 2.4 x 3.8 or 2.5 x 3.7

Bob

 

[Mike G]

........I am also going to use mineral wool for the insulation.
If my joists are 150 mm and the insulation is 100 mm what supports the insulation and does that prevent mice from moving in........

Your roof insulation is supported by the ceiling, attached to the underside of the joists (flat roof).

 

[MY63]

Thanks Mike I was actually talking about the floor.
I think I understand the walls and roof thing the OSB is the vapour barrier then outside of that is the insulation followed by the vapour barrier to allow any moisture out into the void to evaporate or up in the North drip out the bottom Then would come the outer shell.
What I clearly don’t get is what stops the insulation falling out of the floor joists and more importantly what keeps the pesky mieces away from nesting in it. I am sure I read one build where netting was used.
I am planning on storing my leather stock in this workshop and it needs to be protected from things that might nibble on it.
Thanks

 

[Mike G]

Oh sorry!

The floor is more awkward. You can fix battens across the underside to hold the insulation up, or staple garden netting in place. As to keeping vermin out, your barrier is the lintels at the edge, but I would always suggest chucking some bait around underneath just to be on the safe side.

If it's a really big issue, then make the floor up upside down, with OSB on what will be the underside, then flip it over. You can either do this in manageable sections, or get some help in for the lift.

 

[MY63]

Thanks Mike
Bait won’t work for us we have spaniels who would just dig for it and eat it and as we have just lost one this week the others are just a little more precious than usual.
I had not considered the plinth as sealing off the space do you think the breathable membrane would be suitable for holding the insulation in place.
Btw I saw a mention of leather in your kitchen construction do you have any clever tricks for storing leather.
Michael

 

[Mike G]

I've got a plastic bag full of leather in one of my sheds. No tricks.

The spaniel would have to dig through the floor, or through the concrete lintels, to get to the bait I suggested. So long as there are no gaps between the lintels, no vermin can get into the underfloor void anyway, and if vermin can't find a way in then a dog certainly wont.

 

[MY63]

You are correct if I dig a foundation as you suggest and lay the lintels correctly there should be plenty of protection.
I have finished my fencing adventure with my neighbour.

2018-11-03_09-20-40 by my0771, on Flickr

It is double sided I did his side first while my wife painted our boards.

Now that is finished I can empty and take down the old shed and make a start on the digging

 

[MY63]

I am sorry for the delay in posting an update here I managed to hurt my back I wish I could say it was due to something heroic but unfortunately I stepped of a kerb that I had not seen.

Anyway I have made some progress with my shopping list I thought I would add it here incase I have missed something out. It will also help me work out what it is all for.

47 x 150 mm CLS regularised green treated 12 x 3m (roof) 10 x 2.4m (floor) 10 x 1.8m (door and window frame and headers) 78m @ £2.71 per m

47 x 100 mm CLS regularised green treated 8 x 2.4 m (end wall upper and lower plates and end studs)) 6 x 3.6 m (upper and lower wall plates) 87 m @ £1.80

25 x 50 mm sawn green treated 20 x 2.4 m 48 m @ £0.45 per m

Concrete lintel 1.2 m x 4 and 1.8 m x 4 m

Breathable membrane 50 m x 1 @£28.90

2440 x 1220 18 mm external plywood x 3 sheets (floor) @ £25.25

2440 x 1220 x 11mm OSB3 x 13 sheets @ £12.74

2440 x 1220 x 18 mm OSB3 sheet @ £19.44

100 mm superglass cavity wall insulation 4.36 m2 x 10 @ £15.00

I am sure I have over ordered on 47 x 150 and 47 x 100 but as I will be building benches inside I am certain
it will be used.

The supplier only has feather edge board in 1.8 m lengths which means lost of joints so I may look elsewhere.

Whilst typing this I realised that I had not added any wood for doors oops.
Joint hangers, vents, and fastenings are all from another supplier.
Roof membrane also another supplier.
Thanks
Michael

 

[Malc2098]

Hi Michael,

Im afraid I haven't done the maths to see if what you ordered is what you need.

However, I have noted that for your sheet boards, you have quoted for ply and OSB as 2440 x 1220.

My supplier only stocked 2400 x 1200 OSB and 2440 x 1220 Ply.

My advice is to check your supplier and his sheet sizes, otherwise you may find you go to put up a sheet against studs, rafters or joists, and it doesn't quite fit.

In addition if it helps, I have found that sawmills supply better choices of F/E rather than just the fence sizes that building supplies do. They offer different widths as well. I didn't realise how many sawmills I had within a half hour's drive until I looked into this.

I hope this helps.

 

[MY63]

Thanks Malcolm
I quoted the information directly from the printed price quote they gave me so the sizes and terminology are all theirs. I feel a bit of a fraud with the information from members here when I go there I actually sound like I know what I am doing, one of the staff even tried to sell me his table saw .
I was actually at a sawmill but they sell mainly ship lap for outside buildings. I compared some of the prices with the big stores and they were much cheaper even.
All of our other local saw mills have gone now most of our heavy industry has also gone.
I do appreciate your advice and enjoyed reading your build.
Michael

 

[MY63]

Time to make a start, I realised after I had removed a few panels I had not taken a starting picture so here is the old shed. I checked with my neighbour who has lived here for 35 years and she said the shed looked old when she moved in.

2018-11-19_04-18-08 by my0771, on Flickr

It was really well put together with large nails and 3 bolts at each corner The inside is dark brown which I think maybe creosote. I would like to reuse some of this timber to make work benches for the inside painting it a lighter colour does anyone know of any issues I may encounter.

 

[Malc2098]

I'm all for re- and up cycling!

 

[MY63]

Rain has stopped the removal of the old shed at the moment. Stone for foundations arrives tomorrow.
But I have been thinking I knit is dangerous I don't do a lot of stamping or riveting in my leather work that may well be because I don't have a suitable bench.
Stamping and tooling leather does not require a heavy blow but reducing the bounce does make a difference to the finished result.
So I was thinking if I dug a hole between my floor joists and set a concrete lintel at a suitable depth to come up through the floor to work bench height where I could site my granite slab.
Is this realistic or would it be better to double up the floor joist and make sure there is a wooden leg/support under this area.
More pictures soon

 

[Mike G]

I wouldn't advocate having anything protruding through the floor. That's not a good idea at all. Double up your joists locally, and/or put an extra support under the joists, but leave the floor intact.

 

[MY63]

I wouldn't advocate having anything protruding through the floor. That's not a good idea at all. Double up your joists locally, and/or put an extra support under the joists, but leave the floor intact.

Thanks Mike I appreciate your input I will add an extra joist at both ends where the bench legs will rest then I can stamp at either end.
My current plan for the inside is to have a large cutting area at the end right across the back wall and two narrow benches running down the long walls. One for leather and the other for machines sander. Edge polisher. Mitre saw. Arbour press and maybe a bandsaw at some point. I don’t require floor space at all other than for standing on and the dogs will need a bed I guess.

 

[MY63]

At last a day with rain so out early to remove the rest of the old shed.

2018-11-24_01-11-39 by my0771, on Flickr

I am almost ready to start digging the stone for the foundation arrived yesterday.

I have planned so far a pent roof not because I like it but because I thought it would offer more head room inside. Someone who lives around the corner has just had a structure built in their garden with a double pitch roof but quite shallow in pitch so before I order the wood. ( They must not have read the rules as it is about 6 inches from their boundary)
Should I build a shallow double pitch or a pent style roof ? I plan on using a rubber type roof covering.