Tez's Workshop Build

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Having finally emptied the old shed and found temporary refuge for all its contents(in loft, in my Old Tranny, on the patio under tarpaulins, and under a temporary cobled together 8x3 lean to) I dismantled it last week and have spent the last few days sorting the wood from it and burning the rubbish - I am now ready to start excavating for the base - ah good old manual labour as I can't get anything into back garden!

Just wondering at the moment about the base construction, depth of concrete , reinforcement?,whether to try to get it as smooth as possible (never done it before), whether it needs a hardcore subbase etc, how much do I add on to length and width compared to size of workshop? Whats the normal procedure for the average workshop in this forum?( Any recommendations I can read up construction methods for base?)

Also after a few weeks of good weather they are now forecasting the return of winter!!

The adventure begins!! :eusa-think:

 

[tracerman]

Tez - my only comments are regarding your proposed floor , rather than the structure of the workshop itself .
If you ever acquire ( or already have) VERY heavy machines such as mortisers , band saws , sawbench etc , you need concrete . You don't want the floor to bend . Also , the surface must be dead level and smooth , as construction of furniture will be need a level surface . Even if you cover the concrete with a wooden floor , you need a reliably dead level base .

Steve

 

[StevieB]

Mike is probably best placed to answer this, but for me the following sufficed:

100mm type 1 scalpings, well tamped down
Blind with sharp sand (not yellow builders sand)
DPM
(optional insulation - jabalite, celotex or similar, 100mm depth)
100-150mm concrete to finish approx 75mm higher than surrounding ground (add reinforcing mesh if required)
(optional 2 rows of bricks on concrete pad as a plinth)
workshop on bricks

Concrete needs to be tamped to level. Easiest way to do this is to use wooden shuttering leveled all round and then with a bit of 2x4 longer than the narrow dimension of the base, use the wooden shuttering as a tamping guide.

There are a variety of other methods (strip foundations, piles, pads, even simple patio slabs etc) and each has there pro's and con's depending on cost, time, ground conditions and likely structure going on top!

Steve

 

[AndyP]

Mike G might need a guinea pig for his latest idea.....

Ooooh, TWO more possible workshop builds! :eusa-dance: Any help I can give will be a pleasure. You'll find my recent build as a sticky in the WIP section of the forum. Since then, I have developed an idea for building smaller workshops without a concrete base, and yet avoiding the usual problems with timber bases.

Welcome, BTW.

 

[RogerS]

With regard to whether floors are perfectly level or smooth, they don't have to be as many cabinet makers I know make a separate platform off the ground on which to build up items and it is this that is perfectly level/smooth. Usually demountable until the next project.

 

[Mike G]

......Just wondering at the moment about the base construction, depth of concrete , reinforcement?,whether to try to get it as smooth as possible (never done it before), whether it needs a hardcore subbase etc, how much do I add on to length and width compared to size of workshop? Whats the normal procedure for the average workshop in this forum?( Any recommendations I can read up construction methods for base?)....

How big is you planned workshop?

Typing is hard, so replies are restricted ATM, but check out my build here:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=198

 

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Yes I've been following your workshop thread (and your extension) with great interest- lots of useful info which I'm sure I will be going back to read a few times.

I'm in negotiations with the swmbo to maybe pinch a bit more off the garden but as is the plot I am already allowed is 5.5m by 3.5m but I think I need to take a metre off both those dimensions cos thats right up the the boundary in the bottom corner of the garden.

Hope you're healing well.

 

[StevieB]

Depending on your neighbours, enough space to walk round is helpful for painting/treating the back of the shop, but 1m is probably excessive unless once is circumferentially challenged

Steve

 

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Lol


Thanks for info on foundations Steve - I just wondering in view of all the digging and shifting I'll have to do for a slab foundation how the price of strip footings etc and those precast concrete t beams would compare?

 

[Wizard9999]

Ooooh, TWO more possible workshop builds! :eusa-dance: Any help I can give will be a pleasure. You'll find my recent build as a sticky in the WIP section of the forum. Since then, I have developed an idea for building smaller workshops without a concrete base, and yet avoiding the usual problems with timber bases.

Welcome, BTW.

On brilliant, I mean abosolutely brilliant! I spend two months digging out a pit to make a base to 'Mike-spec', throw in more steel than they used to build Blackpool Tower (due to close proximity of trees) and now he comes up with an idea for a timber base :x .

Terry.

 

[Mike G]

For much smaller sheds than yours, Terry.

 

[Wizard9999]

Yes I've been following your workshop thread (and your extension) with great interest- lots of useful info which I'm sure I will be going back to read a few times.

I'm in negotiations with the swmbo to maybe pinch a bit more off the garden but as is the plot I am already allowed is 5.5m by 3.5m but I think I need to take a metre off both those dimensions cos thats right up the the boundary in the bottom corner of the garden.

Hope you're healing well.

How high are you going? If less than 2.5m you are OK right up to boundary, if over that within 2m of the boundary you'll need planning consent. If the ground is sloping you can 'steal' some height if you dig down into any slope as the 2.5m is from the highest point of "natural" ground level next to the workshop.

At 5.5m x 3.5m, assuming that is external dimensions and you will have walls 100mm thick all around then is that an internal floor area of c.17.5m2. Within 1.0m of the boundary if you are over 15.0m2you are into having to get building regulations approval and to secure that you will need to build something that is considered adequately "non-combustable" by your local building regulations people.

I would suggest staying 1.01m from the boundary and a maximum height of 2.49m .


In terms of the base I had 100 - 150mm of hardcore and then about 50mm of sand to blind. DPM and steel and then between 150 and 300mm of concrete - but I built directly next to two very big oaks, so it was a bit belt and braces with the concrete getting thicker the closer I got to the trees. Unfortunately the thread I worte on the first part of my build was lost to the IT fairies who took it away, and it was never seen again, so I can't point you to that. But it did take me a long time to dig out for the foundations by hand, but then I am a soft office dweller during the week so not used to hard work and I was constantly stopping to hack out a giant root, so hopefully your task will be much quicker.

Looking forward to seeing how things go.

Terry.

 

[Wizard9999]

...Also , the surface must be dead level and smooth , as construction of furniture will be need a level surface . Even if you cover the concrete with a wooden floor , you need a reliably dead level base .

Steve

My emphasis.

Oh God I do hope not; there was no way I got my base millimetre perfect . I thought that was what levelling feet were for .

Terry.

 

[RogerS]

Is there an issue re fire-proofing if you get close to a boundary or is that a neighbouring building on the boundary line? I know Steve Maskery over on UKW had a problem with his but maybe it was because his workshop is the size of an aircraft hangar.

 

[Wizard9999]

Is there an issue re fire-proofing if you get close to a boundary or is that a neighbouring building on the boundary line? I know Steve Maskery over on UKW had a problem with his but maybe it was because his workshop is the size of an aircraft hangar.

The fireproofing requirement kicks in at 15m2 if you are within 1m of the boundary, so yes Steve M was a country mile beyond what he could ever have been for the construction he originally intended. If I recall when Steve first confessed this was an issue he said something about the BCO thinking it was going to be clad in brick, how the heck Steve said "wood" and the BCO heard "brick" I guess we'll never know :lol: . Steve has so far only aluded to how this will be resolved but I think it is going to be an unwelcome and potentially significant additional cost, I get the distinct impression it is a topic he would prefer not to discuss in any detail.

Terry.

 

[Mike G]

There is a cementitious board available (Eternit is one brand) which looks like wood but isn't, and is suitable as a fire-resistant wall treatment on a boundary. He'll probably use something like that, I imagine.

 

[9fingers]

Lol


Thanks for info on foundations Steve - I just wondering in view of all the digging and shifting I'll have to do for a slab foundation how the price of strip footings etc and those precast concrete t beams would compare?

My gut feel is that unless there are particularly awkward access problems, that ready mixed concrete solid slab will be cheaper than small quantities of beam and block flooring. The latter is fairly competitive if you are taking a whole wagon load of the beams but the price can soar if you only want a few. You still have to screed the beam & block whereas you can power float the concrete slab to a finish acceptable for a workshop.

I'll be watching with interest - we like workshop build threads!

Bob

 

[Wizard9999]

Lol


Thanks for info on foundations Steve - I just wondering in view of all the digging and shifting I'll have to do for a slab foundation how the price of strip footings etc and those precast concrete t beams would compare?

My gut feel is that unless there are particularly awkward access problems, that ready mixed concrete solid slab will be cheaper than small quantities of beam and block flooring. The latter is fairly competitive if you are taking a whole wagon load of the beams but the price can soar if you only want a few. You still have to screed the beam & block whereas you can power float the concrete slab to a finish acceptable for a workshop.

I'll be watching with interest - we like workshop build threads!

Bob

Although don't forget the cost of getting the concrete from truck to hole. You mention it has to be dug by hand as there is an access restriction, will that also restrict some form of dumper truck that could be used to move the concrete? I would not expect barrowing by hand would be a job you want to take on even if it is possible (and depending on the distance / how fast you can run with a barrow full of concrete the waiting times may make that uneconomic anyway). It can be pumped (which is what I ended up doing) but it just adds more to the cost.

Terry.

 

[Woodbloke]

Fwiw, my 'shop has been up well over ten years now and uses a completely suspended wooden floor...no concrete anywhere. I had to brace it better a couple of years ago but there's some relatively heavy kit supported on it. Jet 260 p/t and a heavy Startrite b/s as well as lot's of timber and a very heavy workbench - Rob

 

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Well after a rather long incubation my shed project is on the move!

So after Cutting down really big privit hedges and digging out the roots I fenced the bottom of the garden and started replacing the panels down the side. In the following pictures you can see the state of some the old panels - even though I kept them painted every couple of years with water based presrvative they didn't last well! I have started coating the new panels with Creaocote as I couldn't get hold of Creosote but I suspect even the Creocote will be better than the water based coatings.

 

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Here and in the next photo is the corner of the garden designated for the shed, new fence at the bottom and new panels at the side. Next step digging out and hardgaroe and sand

 

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Electric supply for shed. I will be replacing this with wider diamete trunking so I can maybe get extra cabling in

 

[9fingers]

Consider two conduits. A second for phone/intercom and ethernet. PC in the workshop useful for showing design information and cut lists etc.
Maybe water too for a sink? Handy to dampen cloths for glue up and brush cleaning. You can always cheat with the drainage to a small hidden soakaway but I never said that!

So much easier to do now than as a retrofit
Bob

 

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Thanks I only thought about that after putting in what you can see in the picture but it wasn'ttoo late so I've used some drainpipe so as to provide larger access for some cat5e cable and maybe some 15 mm speedfit flexible pipe.

 

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in the bottom left hand corner of the slab you can just about see the drainpipe I used to get cabling up through the slab.


I definately took some pictures of the site with the the formwork and sand blinding but can't seem to find them but heres some of the slab only a few days old.


I used 6x2s for the formwork, used visquine(sp?) and put mesh in the slab as well so should bleedin well outlast me!

 

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I got the concrete from a Spotmix type company as I didn't want the hassle of having any left over. After barrowing in is cost me about £230 so not too bad.

Just considering when I should take the formwork off now and cut back the sheeting.

Will be going down the brick store to order bricks and blocks tomorrow. Anyone got any links for how I work out how many I need?

 

[Malc2098]

Coming along nicely.

I used this calculator for bricks, blocks and mortar. Found it very useful.

http://source4me.co.uk/calculate_brick_block_mortar.php

 

[TrimTheKing]

Looks good mate. You'll be finished before me... [emoji23]

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[tabs]

Cheers

Just ordered bricks for delivery friday. I have gone for these:

http://wienerberger.co.uk/product-searc ... ge-antique

 

[Mike G]

Nice bricks. They look so much better with a white mortar rather than grey.

 

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Yeah, I was thinking about that Mike but I've already got half a bag of red builders sand left over from blinding for the slab. Still I suppose I can always use that elsewhere in my garden project! Would I be right thinking I would just get some yellow builders sand and use normal cement or do I need a special cement to get a whiter colour?

 

[Mike G]

White cement rather than OPC. The whiter the sand the better.

 

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Bricks delivered this morning and really happy with them. Just got to barrow them into garden and will dry set the corners this morning to check squares. Got to drive to builders merchant to pick up some white cement, two bags should do it for the brick facing I think. Was surprised that my local merchant(huws Gray) didn't actually stock it! Also they onl do red builders sand and don't carry 50mm thermalite blocks.

I'm struggling to get hold of the blocks to be honest. Even Travis perkins don't carry them! May have to try builders merchants a bit farther afield but of course delivery charge will be going up and may even be more than the cost of the bloody blocks!lol

Is the mix ratio for the mortar any different with white cement,or is it still 1:5?

 

[Malc2098]

I could only find one merchant that kept a very small stock of 50mm blocks and that was halfway cross the other side of the country from me!

I ended up making a jig out of 50x25mm roofing batten that you could put a 100mmm block in and saw down a gap between to battens to give you o perfect pair of 50mm blocks.

By hand sawing, there is very little dust, and although I bought a concrete saw for about £16 that did the job very well, MikeG reckons any old saw will do.

I will try and sort out the rotation issue with the photos and load them later.

 

[Malc2098]

 

[Mike G]

......Is the mix ratio for the mortar any different with white cement,or is it still 1:5?

I use 6:1:1/2 sand: white cement: lime. The lime is only there for the colour, really, and 6:1 should be plenty strong enough.

 

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Thanks Mike.

Well this weekend is forecast to be the first one with decent weather since I got the bricks etc so fingers crossed I will be making a start on dwarf wall tomorrow. On the plus side it has given me some time to think about it.

One thing that did pop into my mind was that I hadn't nailed down how wide i should make the opening for the door. I won't be getting any big machines in there initially but eventually I'd like some so need to take this into consideration. What width do you guys recomend to enable getting equipment in there?

Also I had thought that when I do the brick skin I migh just push a rawlplug with a sccrew in it into the mortar so I don't have to drill when connecting the strpping. Bad or good idea?

With regards to the strapping I notice you've used some thin stuff off a roll? Which is the cheapest stuff to ask for that would do the job?

I've seen from reading the threads of other builds on here that you should build the four corners first? Does anyone have any links to videos/instructions for the how to set this out. I have done some brick and blockwork before but just straight walls with no turns so am a bit nervous.

 

[Mike G]

If you have a double door then 1500 is about the minimum, as you can still use one leaf effectively. For a single door, I'd be looking for 900 for a workshop, minimum, because stuff you make, or materials you want to take in, could be awkward with anything less.

No, drill your plugs in, and not into the mortar courses.

There are a multitude of different flexible galvanised MS straps on a roll available. They're all pretty cheap.

Building the corners first is the traditional way of doing brickwork, and takes some care. You could alternatively set up some firm corner posts of timber and stretch your line between them, but, frankly, for 3 course it is hardly worth the trouble.

 

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Thanks Mike , was trying to be a bit too clever there , Lol. Will drill and plug into brick.