Thinking about a domino machine.

[Cabinetman]

And soon realised that the only ones I can find are made by fesstool. It seems a lot of money for the limited number of times I would use one. Are there really no other makes available?
I’m looking to make some cabinet door frames and house shutters, or should I put the money towards second hand band saw and mortice machines as these would be a lot more use?

 

[droogs]

Don't think the green and black machines patent runs out until next year. So unless you can hold on 18 months get one or get chopping

 

[Steve Maskery]

Festool still own exclusive rights to the design.
Yes they are expensive, but they are very, very good at what they do. If you are a hobby woodworker on a budget then it might be hard to justify, but for anyone trying to earn a living, they speed things up immensely. The fact that second-hand one are rare and still expensive tells you everything you need to know.

 

[9fingers]

Bought a second hand Domino machine a while back and to be honest I've not found it as life changing as many users report.
Yes it works but it does not do small work very well. I did a large project needing frames made from 22mm square stock and had the place the joints very carefully indeed to avoid the slot bursting out of the side of the stock

So I'd say a safe minimum stock size would be 25mm square.

I'l not be selling it on but if it broke or i lost is somehow, I'd not be looking to get another.

Ian, you might want to look at YouTube Peter Millards jig for cutting domino slots with a router to see if it might do the sort of jobs you have in mind.

Bob

 

[Doug71]

What Steve said.

This is a typical Shaker style (I know!) door I make, the Dominos are overkill but it's so quick and easy.

I just cut the stiles and rails off to length then use the flip stops on the Domino (XL) to position the mortises, absolute zero marking out needed it just references off the outside of the rail/stile.





Not sure where you are situated these days but if you are still somewhere near me feel free to pop over for a play.

Doug

 

[AJB Temple]

I agree. I don't use mine all that often, but when I do it is extremely quick and useful. I've made a lot of drawer boxes, frames and edge joints with mine. It is dead on accurate and I find it OK with quite small stock suitably clamped and positioned.

Absolutely must be used with extraction.

I bought mine almost unused s'h pretty cheap about 3 or 4 years ago. It came as a pair with the large one. I sold the large one about a year or so later (at a significant profit), as I made some doors and a gate and then really had no more use for it in sight.

Even for fine work I would use it as a mortiser then chop out by hand. I briefly had an Axi mortise machine s/h from a member at the other place, but sold that as it was a faff to use in comparison. Machine to wood is usually much more convenient that wood to machine for what I do.

 

[Cabinetman]

Thanks Bob will check it out. Doug that’s very nice of you indeed, unfortunately I’m in Yanky land for a few months so not too handy, lol.
Thanks all for your comments, I may possibly go down the halving joint route. Still weighing up the different equipment I shall get over here, but it won’t be a full workshop like I have back home. Interesting times!

 

[Doug]

Bought a second hand Domino machine a while back and to be honest I've not found it as life changing as many users report.
Yes it works but it does not do small work very well. I did a large project needing frames made from 22mm square stock and had the place the joints very carefully indeed to avoid the slot bursting out of the side of the stock

So I'd say a safe minimum stock size would be 25mm square.

I'l not be selling it on but if it broke or i lost is somehow, I'd not be looking to get another.

Ian, you might want to look at YouTube Peter Millards jig for cutting domino slots with a router to see if it might do the sort of jobs you have in mind.

Bob

Sounds like you need the trim stop Bob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=483JjXmZlJ0
Also if you use 4mm dominos they are 17mm wide so will work down to 21mm stock.

 

[9fingers]

Bought a second hand Domino machine a while back and to be honest I've not found it as life changing as many users report.
Yes it works but it does not do small work very well. I did a large project needing frames made from 22mm square stock and had the place the joints very carefully indeed to avoid the slot bursting out of the side of the stock

So I'd say a safe minimum stock size would be 25mm square.

I'l not be selling it on but if it broke or i lost is somehow, I'd not be looking to get another.

Ian, you might want to look at YouTube Peter Millards jig for cutting domino slots with a router to see if it might do the sort of jobs you have in mind.

Bob

Sounds like you need the trim stop Bob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=483JjXmZlJ0
Also if you use 4mm dominos they are 17mm wide so will work down to 21mm stock.

Yup I've got one of those Doug. In the video he is using 25mm stock. Mine was 22mm and a 5mm cutter so I had to work with the "fit adjuster thingy" set to minimum so everything had to be spot on.
As I say it works but no way life changing and for small stuff , halving joints were just as good with the table saw set up to do them. Possibly site work would be different but I don't do any of that.

Bob

 

[Pete Maddex]

New coat/helmet rack by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

25mm oak 26 joints, one afternoon to cut and assemble using a domino.
It would have taken a lot longer and possibly not turned out so well hand cuting all the joints.

Expensive but well worth it IMHO.

Plus we all need to treat ourselves once in a while.

Pete

 

[Woodbloke]

These things are an absolute 'game changer'. Doing this Japanese style lamp:



...any other way would have been almost impossible. Easy though with a Domino and all the timber is 22mm square so provided you're very careful, small stuff is doable.

Don't even think about it, just get one - Rob

 

[Steve Maskery]

I hate to plug Another Place, but my jig for use with the Domino is a must, especially for narrow stuff where there is not a lot of support or short stuff that you can't easily clamp.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/wo ... jig.92331/

 

[AndyP]

Would this be a viable alternative?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Triton-TDJ600- ... B00FZ5MTFO

 

[Mike Jordan]

A hollow chisel mortiser would be a much better investment in my opinion. A decent power router can also do many of the jobs that some consider a domino machine vital for, and also has many uses in its own right.
The prices I have seen seem out of this world compared to other power tools. I have never owned or used one and like the biscuit jointer my son purchased many years back, I think conventional methods and my router would mean it would lie idle if I had made the purchase.

 

[Woodbloke]

A hollow chisel mortiser would be a much better investment in my opinion. A decent power router can also do many of the jobs that some consider a domino machine vital for, and also has many uses in its own right.
The prices I have seen seem out of this world compared to other power tools.

I had a hollow chisel morticer and got rid of it pretty quickly in favour of the a Domino machine which is a far more versatile bit of kit. Look at the jointing on my floor standing lamp above; they couldn't have been made with hollow chisel morticer or router. Agreed, the Dom is spendy, but it's well worth the sponds .
I do though, use a router for cutting mortices when needed which I'll have to do on the current job - Rob

 

[RogerS]

I'm with Rob. But thank you for reminding me, Mike. I must put that morticer up for sale

 

[Eric the Viking]

I have the 700 (XL) with a Seneca adapter to use smaller cutters, realistically down to 6mm. 5mm and 4mm ones woud be technically possible, but silly, and awkward because of the depth adjustment amongst other things.

I rarely use it, which ought to mean I can't justify the price, except...

Good stuff

... It will easily do things you just can't with a morticer, for example joining handrail at mitred corners (that one's coming up real soon now!), and pretty much any end-on morticing (yes, I know that's what tenons are for, but sometimes you just need to).

We have big rooms in this house with tall skirtings ("baseboard")... I can join mid-run, without needing a backing plate of any sort, and I can do it with better accuracy than using dowels or loose tongues or whatever - really quick: cut a square end on the skirting, cut the domino slots, then re-cut the square end to be the scarf. I have the "alignment wings" for it, so can plant a mortice about 5" off the reference edge, without any trouble (or reference off another mortice already cut). And it will, with thinner dominoees, allow you to build up moulding profiles (that's another essential in a place like this), without faffing about with long loose tenons - way too much 'fun' single handed (yes, I know, get more clamps!). That stuff is so easy!

I also bought it with one eye on making a fresh set of interior doors. They're big: 33.5" x 81" on the ground and first floors (four panels, with four rails altogether). The rails are really fat: 10.5" at the bottom, lock rail is 11", and top two are 4". The lower two would have to be made up from 4x2 staves, because of cost and availability (I think the originals are yellow pine).

I worked out that the stock saving alone by using dominoes instead of traditional M+T would be around 56-60" of 4x2, per door. That's not to be sneezed at on its own, and when you consider that shorter lengths also mean less wastage, dominoes start to become really economical. Our plans have changed; we probably won't stay here long now we're both semi-retired, but if we did there are quite a few of these doors to make...

Downsides:

There are some issues with using smaller cutters, notably that the fence stops at 10mm away from the C/L of the cutter (this isn't a problem on the smaller machine). If working with, say, MDF sheet, you'll want to plant dominoes much closer to the surface than that.

So I currently have a slab of 10mm Perspex in the study, waiting for a sensible attachment plan to use it as an auxiliary fence. That will take it down to basically half the narrow width of the mortice. I think I've got this now so will make it up when I next need to do that.

I think Festool's DX ports are terrible. The one on the Domino is pretty bad (and I don't like the one on the Kapex either, although it's bigger). You do neeed extraction with the Domino: although it not a thicknesser, it will clog quickly. The power connector on the back of the machine is also pretty poor (it's Festool's "standard" for handheld tools, and rubbish in comparison to those from the likes of Neutrik and Canon), but at least it has a good long rubber-covered cable.

Do I like it?

All in all, I am glad I bought it, especially before they really racked up the prices recently. I intend to keep it until I can no longer use it.

I fully intend to 'beat the system' over dust extraction: it infuriates me that ther's no standard for DX ports on handheld kit* after decades of power tool use in DIY and small workshops. Some other manufacturers (lookin' at you, Makita!) can't even standardise between their own sanders! At least Festool hoses don't fall off in the middle of a job. But paying over 100 quid for a vacuum cleaner hose is really ridiculous and I WILL NOT do that on principle, even if it takes me a while to contrive my own.

I like the machine, but I haven't suddenly turned all green'n'black as a consequence.

E.

*In my working life in technical marketing, it was very obvious that open standards boosted sales across the industry. Closed systems ("you can only use our own accessories") caused customer dissatisfaction and a lot of brand switching - no matter how good the products, customers couldn't wait to escape what they perceived as a trap. Closed systems rarely, if ever, improved overall profit. I know it's not quite the same in this industry, but still...

 

[Cabinetman]

Thanks Eric that has given me fresh food for thought, and no I wouldn’t enjoy being held hostage by a bit of equipment either, I bought a Leigh dovetail jig for what I thought was an awful lot of money at the time, I found it limited me to what the equipment was capable of instead of allowing me to build what I wanted.