• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

On engraving, waxing, silvering and branding...

Dr.Al

Old Oak
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
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Location
Dursley, Gloucestershire
Name
Al
As part of the regeneration of my website and with a bit of help from a friend, I've created a logo (based on my three initials, ASB, superimposed together). To use the logo in more than my website, I have ordered some branding irons / stamps. However, I also wanted to do something a bit different for those projects (like the travel tool chest) that I considered to be particularly special.

For the special projects, I thought it would be nice to have an inset metal disc with the logo marked on it.

I started with a length of brass that was slightly over 20 mm in diameter. I turned it down to exactly 20 mm, faced the end and used a centre-cutting end mill to drill a shallow hole in the face.

2024-12-08-01-turning-to-size-and-end-mill-blind-hole_800.jpg


My horizontal bandsaw cut-off table, which has an end stop, made it nice and easy to chop the parts off to a consistent length:

2024-12-08-02-using-length-stop-on-bandsaw_800.jpg


The bar then went back in the lathe and I repeated the process. After a little while, I had 23 blanks, each with one side that was smooth but with a hole in and one side that was rough sawn from the bandsaw:

2024-12-08-03-first-side-done_800.jpg


I fitted the soft jaws in the lathe and machined them to size, first with a 19 mm end mill...

2024-12-08-04-preparing-soft-jaws_800.jpg


... and then with a boring bar:

2024-12-08-05-preparing-soft-jaws-2_800.jpg


I could then use that set-up to face off the "show face" of all the blanks, easily getting them to the same thickness:

2024-12-08-06-turning-front_800.jpg


That gave me 23 blanks, all with a relatively smooth (but not smooth enough!) finish.

2024-12-08-07-turned-finish_800.jpg


I had a bit of pre-knurled stainless steel left-over from when I made the thumbscrews for the vice screws. I turned a short spigot on the end of that (to fit into the shallow hole I drilled in the back of each blank):

2024-12-08-08-turning-spigot-on-stainless_800.jpg


That stainless piece could then be used to make the process of sanding (with wet-and-dry paper) a bit more ergonomic:

2024-12-08-09-sanding_800.jpg


At this point, there was a long interlude. The interlude first involved having a go with press-and-peel paper to etch the logo into the blanks. Getting the press-and-peel paper both aligned with the blanks and properly stuck to the blanks proved to be too difficult, so I gave up on that and tried photolithography. Again that proved to be a failure. All the things I've done with either press-and-peel or photolithography have been significantly larger (and thinner). That made it much easier to get a nice smooth finish when either doing the toner transfer or affixing the photoresist film. With these little discs it was extremely hard to get a good result. Thankfully, it was obvious there was a problem long before they went anywhere near the ferric chloride etchant, so none of the parts were wasted in the process.

I could have tried laying the design out on a large sheet of brass (and I considered that). The challenge there would have been cutting the parts out as circles and getting those circles aligned correctly with the logo. It certainly would have been possible and it would be quite straightforward for one part, but doing that for 20+ parts just felt too hard.

At this point, I posted an appeal for help on the MIG-welding forum. An incredibly generous soul over there offered to use his CNC-engraving machine to cut the logos in my blanks. I posted the blanks up to him in a little 3D-printed carrier and a couple of weeks later, they came back in the post:

2024-12-08-10-engraved-pieces-just-arrived_800.jpg


To finish the parts off, I found an off-cut of aluminium and (on the lathe) turned a shallow recess into the face. The aluminium piece could then be held in the bench vice and the discs could be placed into the recess. Some dial wax (black shellac) was then used to cover the face (trying, and sometimes succeeding, in keeping it just on the face and not down the sides as well).

2024-12-08-11-on-aluminium_800.jpg


To apply the wax, a blowtorch is used to apply heat to the part (and the aluminium underneath). Once the brass part has warmed sufficiently, the dial wax stick is shoved into the face of the part and it melts. The recess in the aluminium part stops the brass part moving around too much.

2024-12-08-12-glooped_800.jpg


The blowtorch is then re-applied, mostly to the aluminium, to re-melt the wax and smooth it out a bit:

2024-12-08-13-heated-to-smooth-out_800.jpg


Once the parts had all been waxed and had cooled down, they went back to the wet-and-dry paper for a clean up. I started with 240 grit to get rid of most of the excess wax and then used 400 grit and 600 grit under running water to polish the face.

I decided it would be interesting to try silvering for some of the parts, using these two powders:

2024-12-08-14-powders_800.jpg


The powders are very simple to use. The first step is to mix them with a tiny amount of water: just enough to make a thick paste. The silvering powder paste is then rubbed into the face of the brass part for a bit until the colour starts to appear.

2024-12-08-15-rubbing-powder_800.jpg


After that is done, the silvering powder is rinsed off in water and then the exact same process is used for the finishing powder.

The wet-and-dry sanding gives the wax a matt finish. To liven it up a bit, the parts get put into a domestic oven on a medium heat for a few minutes. I either had the oven a bit hot or left them too long as some of the wax bubbled up out of the pockets, which looks like this:

2024-12-08-16-overcooked_800.jpg


Anyway, that was easily sorted (albeit by repeating a few of the other steps) and I finally ended up with 20 good logo inserts. This photo shows the contrast between a plain brass part and one that has been silvered. You can also see the glossy colour of the wax post-oven:

2024-12-08-17-two-pieces-done_800.jpg


As I said at the start, the first project for this is my travel tool chest. I drilled a 20 mm hole in an off-cut and clamped it to the back of the chest. The off-cut is there to help me drill in a straight line:

2024-12-08-18-drilling-hole_800.jpg


I deliberately drilled the hole slightly deeper than the thickness of the logo insert. That will allow me one or two passes over the back with a smoothing plane if required before I start hitting the logo insert.

The hole got some superglue dribbled into it...

2024-12-08-19-superglue_800.jpg


... and then the logo was pressed into place:

2024-12-08-20-glued-in-subflush_800.jpg


This photo gives a better view of where it is located on the back of the chest:

2024-12-08-21-full-back-view_800.jpg


I'll talk a bit about my branding trials and tribulations soon...
 
Great idea, Clever, nice. And well executed as usual.
I had a branding iron made with my monogram (you may have seen it on some of my turnings). I went for the electric version. I find slightly wetting the object’s surface and a few practices to get the pressure and time right helps.
 
Awesome! You are the Workshop Wizard, able to bend sorcery to your will! :)
 
I'm not sure I understood much of the process, but the result is fantastic. I wish I had the ability to do something like that, as I would definitely leave my mark on stuff I made if it was as smart as that.
 
Nice work Al but I'd have put your logo proudly on the front of the chest ratherthan the back. (y)

I had a go at something similar but far less sophisticated, tried to engrave initially on to some old refaced out of circulation coins then on machined disks like yours but never happy with them. I didn't try wax infill but played with an airbrush and paint and all that did was highlight the poor engraving so I gave up as a bad job.

I made my own branding iron which wasn't too difficult by hand though a second attempt could be better and alternate that on wood with carving directly onto a piece or using a pyrography tool.
 
Great idea, Clever, nice. And well executed as usual.

Thanks Andy

I had a branding iron made with my monogram (you may have seen it on some of my turnings). I went for the electric version. I find slightly wetting the object’s surface and a few practices to get the pressure and time right helps.

I didn't even realise electric ones were a thing. I've got three of them, two brass ones (a big one & a small one) and a hardened steel punch (for metalwork projects). I'll post some photos here soon. I have managed some successful "brands", but I'm quite hit-and-miss at the mo.

Awesome! You are the Workshop Wizard, able to bend sorcery to your will! :)

Thanks Andy.

I'm not sure I understood much of the process, but the result is fantastic. I wish I had the ability to do something like that, as I would definitely leave my mark on stuff I made if it was as smart as that.

The process is relatively simple, especially if you don't mind shaping it after etching (i.e. etch a sheet instead of a small disc). I learnt it all from a Clickspring video, which explains it far better than I could.

Unfortunately, that video isn't out yet: I saw it on patreon, but he's gradually releasing the patreon ones on youtube now.

The series is the "Byzantine Sundial Calendar" and it's well worth a watch. They're coming out about once a fortnight; the etching/waxing/silvering one is episode 9 & will probably be out in 2-3 weeks time.


It would be nice if the engraving/etching process was easier: I really don't have space for a CNC engraver or the patience to keep trying photolithography (especially since I don't have a dark-room so have to do it after sunset - that limits the number of attempts I can do in a day!).

Once the pattern is etched/engraved, the rest of the process is really easy.
 
Very 'helegant' Dr.Al😎😎 For the last few years I've resorted to a pyro pen to add my initials and date (for me, that's important) to stuff that's made in the 'shop. Surprisingly, to me at least, it's a lot more difficult to do as many timbers simply won't accept a hot nib. Walnut is the best; holly wot I though would be great is rubbish and any open grained timber is a nightmare (oak, ash etc) so I generally now inlay a small walnut insert for the pyro stuff. Bog Oak is rubbish as well🤣🤣

Curious though; what happens if you make say, a small box (perhaps with a Cosman hinge)...would these inserts be too big?

That said, I only have a basic pen from Ax (about £40) and am loath to shell out a load of hard earned spondulicos on one of these über fancy, all singing, all dancing professional pen kits - Rob
 
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Very 'helegant' Dr.Al😎😎 For the last few years I've resorted to a pyro pen to add my initials and date (for me, that's important) to stuff that's made in the 'shop. Surprisingly, to me at least, it's a lot more difficult to do as many timbers simply won't accept a hot nib. Walnut is the best; holly wot I though would be great is rubbish and any open grained timber is a nightmare (oak, ash etc) so I generally now inlay a small walnut insert for the pyro stuff. Bog Oak is rubbish as well🤣🤣

I don't think I'd trust my dexterity enough to use a pyro pen (or even a felt-tip)! I'm not too bothered about the idea of adding a date; I tend to stick stuff I've made on the website anyway, so it's fairly easy to work out when I made something. Even those that don't get published are fairly easily found in google photos.

Curious though; what happens if you make say, a small box (perhaps with a Cosman hinge)...would these inserts be too big?

I think they would as they are, yes, but that's mainly because I elected to make them quite thick. For most things I make I intend to use the branding irons I bought. In fact I made two boxes this weekend (in the style of the tea caddies I've posted on here before, but with different text on the top) and I used the branding iron on the base. I'll post some photos of those boxes (along with the other things I made this weekend) at some point, but they're gifts and I don't want them to be seen on-line before they've been received.

There's no reason you couldn't make a small box with a brass insert but it would need to be thinner I think and you'd probably have to make the hole with something other than a Forstner bit (or the tip would come through the other side of the box). If you were inclined towards "screaming monsters" then you could cut the hole with an electric router and template I guess. Otherwise an option could be to make the insert rectangular rather than round and set it into the box in the same way you might insert a Dutchman.

The other advantage of rectangular is it would be easier to use sheet brass for the inserts as it would be easier to shape it after etching if you didn't have to worry about perfectly concentric circles. Using sheet brass rather than small pre-cut pieces makes photolithography much, much easier (q.v. the clickspring video I mentioned above).
 
Very nice and looks quite fun, I've fancied trying to etch for a while. Why the wax? Would rattle can black spray not be more durable.
Have you seen that guy in the states who does the machine tags
 
Very nice and looks quite fun, I've fancied trying to etch for a while. Why the wax? Would rattle can black spray not be more durable.

Black spray may well work; it's not something I've tried. I think dial wax is quite durable though: it's not wax in the sense of bees / candle wax, it's black shellac. It dries to a very hard (but brittle) solid.

Have you seen that guy in the states who does the machine tags

No.
 
Excellent work,. Metalwork goes straight over my head but it is always nice to see skill and passion in action.
 
Black spray may well work; it's not something I've tried. I think dial wax is quite durable though: it's not wax in the sense of bees / candle wax, it's black shellac. It dries to a very hard (but brittle) solid.
Oh I get it now, so its similar to the stuff on planes thats baked on. Wadkin used a couple of different types of tag. Thin copper plate, acid etched, nickel plated and painted. These are terrible to refurbish because the etch is really shallow. The other is a cast brass plate that has a vitrified coating that is really durable.

120220113913.jpg
 
I said I would talk a little about branding...

These are the branding irons I bought:

2024-12-08-22-branding-irons-600.jpg

The two brass ones (which will be getting new handles at some point) are for branding wood. The one at the top is hardened steel and with a simplified pattern (just sharp lines following the outline: without the varying line width). It's intended to be used for punching into metal. I haven't managed a successful punch with it yet, but I've got a few ideas of things that might help.

These were my first few attempts at branding with the brass logo stamps:

2024-12-08-23-first-practice-600.jpg

Wetting the wood definitely helps, but it's also important to get the temperature right, something I haven't mastered yet (I may at some point follow @AndyP's advice and get an electric heater for them, but I'd like to persevere a little before resorting to technology). At the moment, I think the most important thing is to make sure I've got a bit of scrap wood to practise on before attacking something important!

This is the first mark I've done (with the smaller stamp) on a finished project:

2024-12-08-24-first-use-on-project-600.jpg

I made that mark before assembling the box (just in case I had to scrap it and make a new box base!)

I've also used the stamps on cork. The smaller one really didn't work as a hot stamp on cork. The big one worked okay though:

2024-12-08-25-cork-okay-but-not-great-600.jpg

The little one can be made to work, but using it as an ink stamp rather than a hot stamp:

1734198605203.png

Again it took a bit of practice to get that right, but I think the result is okay.

I definitely need more practice (especially with the hardened steel punch), but it'll be fun to play with them.
 
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