A Japanese style garden shed

[AJB Temple]

So shall I. It wasn't a roaring success in the only building I've ever specified it for. It shrinks as it dries, and the wetter it is, the more it shrinks. So, apply it as dry as you dare........and then it's difficult to work. The builder thought they'd got a good finish, and came back after the weekend to find it had crazed all over. The area here is so tiny that it will work fine, but I'd be cautious if it was a bigger project.

This is why I asked the question. My experience is similar and the only walls I've seen it used on looked like a dried up cracked lake bed a week after application.

Japan has a radically different climate, and maybe so does Gary, so results may be different.

 

[GaryR]

It may not work at all or become a big mess. I'll still have fun trying.

I have a friend here in town who has earth plastered/rendered his house inside and out and lime plastered his shop last year. He has promised to help. I have another acquaintance who used to sell earth plaster and teach how to use it and has offered to get me started as well. So although I'm a complete novice I do have some local guides to the territory. That has been one nice benefit of building such an unusual structure: friends tell other friends what I'm doing and people I would have never met are volunteering to be a part of it.

 

[GaryR]

As far as climate and earth plaster goes, it works fine here in Oregon if applied properly. In fact, a company in southern Oregon (about a 4 hour drive from Corvallis in a drier part of the state) is the home of EcoNest Architecture, who have a long history of using earth walls and earth plaster in their designs.

EcoNest Architecture

www.econestarchitecture.com

And my friend who builds Japanese houses in Seattle uses earth plaster (when his clients agree to pay for it!) Seattle is a little wetter than Corvallis. He is the one who encouraged me to try it.

 

[Cabinetman]

For those like me that hadn’t come across it before there is a link below to a wonderful site all about using it for houses. Strangely enough I came across a Cob house in a museum in the New Forest yesterday, not realising that it’s the same stuff.
Tried to upload a couple of pics but it says the files are too large?
Worth a look as it’s pretty informative in a new age sort of way!

How to make earth plaster.

How to make earth plaster.

www.themudhome.com

 

[AJB Temple]

For those like me that hadn’t come across it before there is a link below to a wonderful site all about using it for houses. Strangely enough I came across a Cob house in a museum in the New Forest yesterday, not realising that it’s the same stuff.
Tried to upload a couple of pics but it says the files are too large?
Worth a look as it’s pretty informative in a new age sort of way!

How to make earth plaster.

How to make earth plaster.

www.themudhome.com

There were a couple of episodes of moaning mcClouds Grand Designs that focussed on cob houses. One was a huge house with really thick straw bale cob walls. The insulation value must have been remarkable. Must be 10 years ago now.

 

[Cabinetman]

I’ve been delving and the house is in Turkey and built of Earth Bags with barbed wire between the rows to withstand Earthquakes. It’s all ever so eco - and quite appealing at the same time.

 

[GaryR]

Finally finished remaking the second sash. This one fits perfectly. I have some weatherstripping arriving on Monday so I should be able to mount the glass and check this job off my list.

 

[Cabinetman]

As expected Gary, that looks very nicely done indeed.
Plain glass?

 

[GaryR]

Yes, 1/8" window glass.

 

[Mike G]

Does the glass sit directly behind the grid of glazing bars? If so, they appear flush with the rebate, so the only space between them and the glass would be that created by the glazing tape. Is that right?

 

[GaryR]

Yes, that's right. Here is a section through the bars. Glass in blue and glazing tape in gray.

 

[Mike G]

So does the glazing tape fix to the back of all the glazing bars, or is it just around the frame? I presume the latter, in which case you have an awkward few millimetre-wide gap behind the bars in which crud and insects might accumulate. If the former, you'll see it through the window when looking out.

 

[GaryR]

Yes, it is an awkward design for weather proofing. My only solutions, I think, are to either omit the glazing tape (the windows are mostly protected by the eaves and the wood is rot resistant so a little wet shouldn't be a problem. Or to glaze all the bars and apply a second matching lattice to the back as part of the stops to hide the glazing tape. But getting that to match the front lattice perfectly might be a challenge. Any other ideas?

 

[Mike G]

Waxed canvas. Omit the glass, stretch some waxed canvas over the inside of whole thing, and either lay another layer of glazing bars over the inside or find a way of gluing it to all the glazing bars. Or maybe if the detail works out you could stretch it over the outside, and then you wouldn't need to fasten it back to each glazing bar, but just secure it around the perimeter.


Don't take that suggestion too seriously.

 

[GaryR]

I like it. Maybe I can screen print a picture of a window on the canvas? Or keep the lattice and omit the glass and add shutters?

While I wait to resolve the sash situation I'm turning to a new craft: copper smithing. I may have mentioned that I was able to obtain some new old stock 80 mm copper half round gutters and accessories. But not quite enough gutter and missing a few accessories. I can order the missing parts from Japan but at full retail price plus shipping. I have already purchased some copper roll for wall flashing in near the same weight (the Japanese material is 0.4 mm thick and the flashing is 0.5 mm) so I figured I'd try to use it to make the missing pieces.

I have a little less than zero experience working copper so please weigh in with suggestions and warnings.

To get oriented, here is the gutter profile.




i need to make and fit four end caps. The stock pieces look like this as shown in the catalogue from Tanita Housing Wares.

SusCu&ã¹ã¼ãã¼éé¨ã¨ãç·åã«ã¿ãã°ï¼BB082-08ï¼

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saas.actibookone.com

I don't need to reproduce that exactly but as an exercise I cut out an unfolded version in paper to see what I am up against. The snips indicate where the piece in copper need to be bent over at 90 degrees. Those odd flaps sticking up are meant to bend over the recurved gutter lips. The little ears at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock are meant to cover the ends of the recurved lips. There is an additional recess and bump out in the center of the diagram that is decorative and I didn't try to duplicate that in paper.



My first thought is that the flaps are unnecessary since the end cap will be soldered onto the gutter. That would simplify the construction. I could also make a half round end cap, further simplifying the work. That leaves the full or half circle 90 bends for soldering and sealing and stiffening the cap.

I have some ideas of how to proceed but as don't know what I'm doing I'll ask for your suggestions first. The ones the work best I can then claim as my own and you'll never see my mistakes.

 

[Mike G]

I like the approach, Gary. The first thought is to make it yourself......

I've only worked copper at a very small scale, so I've nothing to offer in the way of advice. I would, though, express astonishment that your alternative was to import from Japan. I specify copper guttering now and then, and it's all easily sourced by the contractors from UK based companies, of which there are a few. I never specify "Coppa Gutta", though, simply because of the spelling .

 

[Cabinetman]

My first thought is a question, why isn’t the end cap a simi-circle? Also it looks as if it clips on, versus soldering, I have soldered a fair few pipes and I think it would be extremely difficult to make an end that fits so absolutely perfectly so that the capillary action of the solder would work, it just won’t bridge gaps. Sorry to be negative. Ian

 

[AndyP]

Someone around here has done a lot of decorative copper work. I seem to remember some very ornate pieces but I cannot find the threads. Anyone else remember?

 

[GaryR]

I like the approach, Gary. The first thought is to make it yourself......

I've only worked copper at a very small scale, so I've nothing to offer in the way of advice. I would, though, express astonishment that your alternative was to import from Japan. I specify copper guttering now and then, and it's all easily sourced by the contractors from UK based companies, of which there are a few. I never specify "Coppa Gutta", though, simply because of the spelling .

Copper half round gutters are available here as well but the fittings are different, especially the hanger brackets which here are designed to attach to a fascia board. Brackets that attach to the ends of exposed rafters are impossible to find and are uncommon even in Japan, my Japanese builder friend tells me. That same friend put me in touch with someone a few hours away who had nearly all the Japanese parts I needed, unused, from a project she never completed. I got them for half price. So even if I have to spend time making a few parts I still come out ahead. And mixing and matching Japanese and American parts is a non starter because of the metric/Imperial divide. Finally, the half round gutters here are all either 5 or 6 inch diameter. Much larger than necessary for my little roof. The gutters I found are 80 mm which is just right for the expected rain load.

 

[GaryR]

Why not a semii-circle is a good question. I have no idea. The maker's catalogue has only semi-circular ones for its 120 and 150 mm gutters but only a circular one for its 80 mm gutters. Maybe a semicircle looks to flimsy on a smaller gutter? However, since I'm making my own I can make what I like. I intend to try both. Thanks for the warning about soldering. If that fails, would a resin glue be an alternative? (Epoxy here, I believe your term is araldite?)

 

[AJB Temple]

I love copper guttering but boy is it expensive these days in the UK.

Gutter generally does not have a circular profile in my experience. I installed steel guttering at our house and I would say the width across the top is quite a bit more than the depth. Design aims to capture roof throw off. Quite pleased with it but copper would be nicer.

 

[Dr.Al]

I've not done much with copper, but I do know that it's a good idea to anneal it regularly. It work-hardens, so the more you bend it, the harder (and more brittle) it'll get. Move it to much without annealing it and it'll crack. Annealing it softens it again so you can move it a bit more.

Unlike steel (where annealing is a case of heating it up and then letting it cool extremely slowly), copper is annealed by heating it up and then cooling it rapidly (e.g. by dunking it in water).

 

[GaryR]

First attempt at making the copper gutter end caps.

I routed a mould in a chunk of walnut and turned a die in western red cedar, the only stock I had large enough. Hardwood would have been better but this seemed to be OK. I cut copper blanks to fit. The first go round was with un-annealed copper, which is sold as being soft enough to bend for flashing. That worked. The next three I further annealed with a propane flame. Those seemed to need fewer whacks with the dead blow hammer. Like 6 vs 8 to 9 whacks. Here is a mix of photos from the work in progress.


An annealed piece extracted from the mould.



The lips were curled from stretching around the mould. I don't have a metal anvil for tapping out the curls so I turned a facsimile in cherry, again the only hardwood I had in large enough stock. I searched among my small collection of hammers and found a ball pein/peen hammer to try to tap down the curls. I did another round of annealing on some of them to see whether that helped remove the curls. I think it did but I'm still feeling my way through this.



And a few results.

Not pretty at this stage but I might be on the right path. Tomorrow I'll try some semicircles, which I think may look better.

I admit I'm concerned about how to to solder them to the ends of the gutters. Plan B is to order the proper pieces from Japan. My friend who orders his materials from there just sent me instructions for how to get them and negotiate the language barrier.

 

[Mike G]

Why don't you cut notches around the edges of the blanks prior to forming them in the mould? That would take away the tendency to curl, which is otherwise inevitable as there is just too much material when the edge circumference is reduced by shaping. My wife's sewing patterns always call for notches in those circumstances.

 

[GaryR]

That is a simple solution that I was trying to avoid, thinking that a continuous surface would be better for soldering. I might be wrong about that.

My alternative so far is to tap out the curls, which in theory can stretch out the metal and send the excess metal into increasing the height of the hem. Dunno if it will work, yet.

 

[Mike G]

Tapping and malleable metal can only increase the area, not decrease it. I think you might find that the more you tap the worse the problem gets. I work with lead often enough, and although it is softer and thicker, it behaves much the same. You can't make excess go away by beating.

 

[GaryR]

Well, it wouldn't be going away in this case but rather spreading toward the free edge. But while walking the dogs today I reconsidered notches and I think I can see how to make that work. I'll try it.

 

[GaryR]

I tried notching the edges both before and after pounding the blanks into the mould. I also made a second mould with more regular steps and edges. The notches did help so thanks for that suggestion. I tried notching them before shaping in the mold and after. Not much difference in outcome. The small trick seems to be to not make the notches too close to the fold.



Overall I think this will work. It would be better if I had the facility to make the mould and die out of metal for finer tolerances but I don't. As these parts will be 3 meters/9 ft in the air and well above sight lines they might make do. I think I may make a couple more to practice soldering and then move on to the next parts. Here is a progression of attempts:

 

[Mike G]

That's much better.

I wonder if this part is spun on a lathe. Not turned, but formed over a former whilst spinning. I'm not sure what the correct term is for the operation.

 

[Dr.Al]

That's much better.

I wonder if this part is spun on a lathe. Not turned, but formed over a former whilst spinning. I'm not sure what the correct term is for the operation.

The term's correct I think: metal spinning. No idea whether that's how they make these parts though.

 

[Cabinetman]

Yes spinning, I saw it done with a big bit of Aluminium once, quickly decided that it looked lethal and stayed well away!

 

[AndyT]

I've no practical experience of this but it's an interesting challenge so I'll chip in anyway.

I think you're right that the commercial items would be pressed in a two part die.

Thin pressed shapes used to be shaped by dropping a one part positive die down onto a piece of sheet metal in an arrangement with a vertical slide, reminiscent of a guillotine. Below the sheet metal was a block of something softish - I think this was lead - that gradually assumed the right contours. I have seen this in the fascinating Coffin Works museum in Birmingham, where they used to make various metal shapes to ornament coffins.

But it's no good discussing production run techniques when you only need a few.

I think you should look into repoussé work. A sheet of thin metal (often copper) is rested on a firm leather sandbag and hit with shaped hammers and punches from the back.

Or stick with your perfectly good method!

 

[Dr.Al]

I think you should look into repoussé work.

 

[GaryR]

I'm happy there are people who can do that, but I doubt I will be one of them.

I do have an adjacent skill I'd like to learn: piercing tin or copper. I have in mind a set of shop cabinets with pierced copper panels for the doors.
For example: https://piercedtin.com/ . I like the geometric designs.

But not today. In fact I decided to give up on making my own gutter parts. After my few attempts I realized that I can't make them to fit properly and look nice with the tools and skills I currently have and it would take too much time and money to get there.

I looked into buying them from Japan. I found that the company who makes the parts I need sells them on Rakuten. Rakuten don't ship to the USA but the broker company OneMap does. Find what you need on Rakuten or Amazon Japan or a few other sites, OneMap buys and stores them for you, then ships them. Of course that adds fees but gets around the language barriers.

For what it is worth, the gable end caps sell in Japan for 1,056 yen each. Adding shipping and handling fees about doubles that. Not cheap but I need only four and my time to make poor copies is worth something. And there were a couple of other accessories that I would not attempt to make and have to buy anyway. So, order placed today. Better to spend my time making my own doors and save my money there.