Bandsaw

[Dr.Al]

Dust extraction is a pointless effort as most of it remains inside the machine.

You are obviously not watching the right videos, Rezi!

I seem to recollect that a certain Steve M of this parish made a very tidy mod for bandsaws to enable virtually all the dust to be collected.

Indeed, thank you Rob.
https://youtu.be/sAEr8oZfJYA
[youtubessl]sAEr8oZfJYA[/youtubessl]

Thanks Steve: added to my watch later list (it feels like it might be one to watch AFTER buying a bandsaw rather than before!).

I watched your "WE4 Bandsaw Essentials" video last night. I'd almost always prefer to read something to learn rather than watching a video, but I thought it was worth a punt and I'm glad I did: it's very well explained and I learned a lot that will definitely be very useful (once I get the bandsaw of course!)

 

[Steve Maskery]

I watched your "WE4 Bandsaw Essentials" video last night. I'd almost always prefer to read something to learn rather than watching a video, but I thought it was worth a punt and I'm glad I did: it's very well explained and I learned a lot that will definitely be very useful (once I get the bandsaw of course!)

Thanks for that, Al. I like having happy customers!

 

[RogerS]

Interesting to look at the pricing structures for say a new 14" bandsaw. Yandles site ranges from about £600 for Charnwood, to circa £2k for Laguna, with Record in the middle somewhere. Basically a bandsaw is pretty simple: just two crowned wheels to hold a blade, and a motor. Cast iron tables. Mostly they have basic guides, unless to pay extra for ceramic. I wonder where the value difference is?

That's not strictly true. For example,

• the bandsaw wheels ....rubber or urethane?
  
  Motor ? Power the same between machines ?
  
  Ease of setting up. Is the factory set-up correct ?
  
  How easy it is to change blades and make subsequent line-up adjustments? There can be a world of difference between machines.
  
  But most important of all, how solid is the frame and does it flex when you try to apply tension for wider blades

.

 

[AJB Temple]

I accept all that of course Roger. But the price differences are immense. The Laguna looks pretty decent, especially the 18" one at around £2,700. Same kind of money as the MiniMax. I wish I had gone for an 18" 3hp saw, but I didn't have the headroom in my workshop without altering the ceiling.

Very little risk I think with a decent brand used one.

I agree with Steve M about extraction. Mine has a cyclone extractor attached to it and there is practically no dust in the machine or even on the table. Works very well. Could be improved even more with a down hose above the work.

 

[RogerS]

Looking at a thread on FOG prompts a few more factors to consider.

• Weight of the wheels.....inertia is your friend for a smooth cut
  
  Size of table
  
  Max cutting height and width
  
  After-sales service and spares availability.

 

[Dr.Al]

Hmmm... back to the drawing board I think.

I just spoke to Lee from ALT Saws and Spares. The Startrite 352 listed on his website sold ages ago (but he didn't update the website ). However, having chatted to him, he thinks that a 352 wouldn't suit me very well as the motor is a bit underpowered for resawing wide boards (which is the main thing I want it for).

I had noticed that the 352 has a 1 hp (750 W) motor vs the 1.5 kW of the Record BS400 and wondered whether it would be an issue. It sounds like it probably will. On the bright side, perhaps I don't need to be so annoyed that all the Startrite 352s on the market seem to be 150+ miles away :lol:

:? :? :? :eusa-think: :? :? :?

 

[9fingers]

Fitting a larger motor to the right machine would be easy enough for a man of your skills dr Al.
Choose something with a beefy frame to be able to tension a 1/2 - 5/8” blade and an overall size comfortable in your workshop. Sounds like you don’t need a huge throat just a decent depth of cut.

Bob

 

[Dr.Al]

Fitting a larger motor to the right machine would be easy enough for a man of your skills dr Al.
Choose something with a beefy frame to be able to tension a 1/2 - 5/8” blade and an overall size comfortable in your workshop. Sounds like you don’t need a huge throat just a decent depth of cut.

Bob

Hmm, yes I guess that's true. Are there likely to be other issues (e.g. motor being two powerful for the machine in some way I haven't thought of yet) though?

It does, of course, make it a bit more complicated than just buying one and using it (although finding one to buy is proving to be enough of a challenge anyway!).

As an aside, in what way would I be likely to regret a more modern machine like a Record BS400? I get that with something like an engineering lathe, the quality of manufacturer inherent in a lot of older machines makes a big difference, but I don't know enough about bandsaws to know what the likely disadvantages of something like the BS400 would be. The reason I'm asking about that specific model is that there's a second hand BS400 on ebay in Hereford and I've heard of another potential second hand one in Brum, so there may be some good options for this machine if it's likely to be any good. If I'm going to quickly regret buying modern, then I'd obviously like to know that before making the mistake, but I'm still not clear on what the problems are likely to be (and whether they would be resolvable).

 

[9fingers]

I've no experience of Record power stuff to offer I'm afraid.
I have a brick outhouse designed early Startrite three wheeler 18-S-1 modified for both wood and steel with a revised belt drive and an inverter driving a 6 pole 1.1hp motor
Only downside is that it could do with a greater depth of cut as it only offers about 7".

Bob

 

[Lurker]

I don't understand what you mean by re sawing wide boards.

The throat needs considering and if it's that wide, a track saw is a better tool anyway.
Board thickness up to about 150mm is down to the tpi and feed rate.

A saw that has the footprint that you desire and most of us have is going to struggle with a blade more than 1/2" . IMHO , It's nothing to do with the motor size as the machine ought to be fairly low torque, unless you are shoving the wood through too fast against a blunt blade.

 

[9fingers]

I don't understand what you mean by re sawing wide boards.

The throat needs considering and if it's that wide, a track saw is a better tool anyway.
Board thickness up to about 150mm is down to the tpi and feed rate.

A saw that has the footprint that you desire and most of us have is going to struggle with a blade more than 1/2" . IMHO , It's nothing to do with the motor size as the machine ought to be fairly low torque, unless you are shoving the wood through too fast against a blunt blade.

Re-sawing needs minimal throat capacity but a depth of cut greater than the board width.

A track saw is useless for resawing
Bob

 

[Lurker]

So what he meant was resawing thick boards?
And wide boards (wot he wrote) was a mistype, in that case I understand.

Edit: just realised, wide boards on their edge

 

[Lurker]

My BS with a 3tpi skip tooth 1/2” blade easily handles 6” dry oak, true I have to go fairly slowly.
But it’s a once in a blue moon job.

 

[Dr.Al]

So what he meant was resawing thick boards?
And wide boards (wot he wrote) was a mistype, in that case I understand.

Edit: just realised, wide boards on their edge

Yep: wide boards on edge

My BS with a 3tpi skip tooth 1/2” blade easily handles 6” dry oak, true I have to go fairly slowly.
But it’s a once in a blue moon job.

At the moment, I feel like it'll be the main use for the bandsaw. I enjoy hand sawing to crosscut or to rip to width (unless it's on a part that is difficult to clamp for some reason), so I expect to keep using the hand saw for those uses. I loathe resawing, so I want a bandsaw that makes that job much, much easier. I've resawn (if that's the right word) quite a few boards recently so I can see it happening much more.

 

[Dr.Al]

This one's for sale in Brum and looks quite tempting:

 

[Lurker]

Go on! You know that you want to.

I like the wheels thingy.

 

[Dr.Al]

Go on! You know that you want to.

:text-lol:

I like the wheels thingy.

Yes, I liked that, although I can see me replacing it with something with four retractable wheels as it will allow a bit more manoeuvrability (which I need!)

 

[Lurker]

 

[Dr.Al]

It seems I did...

It all fitted in the back of the car (having taken the table, band wheels, doors and motor off to make it easier to lift):



I now have a lot less space in my already crammed garage and need to figure out what to do with all the stuff that moved onto my benches to make space for the bandsaw...



It came with 9 blades, varying in width (depth?) from 3/4" (19 mm) down to a mere 1/8" (3 mm). It also came with a "Carter Stabiliser" that can be used with the smallest (< 1/4" / 6 mm) blades to allow tighter turns. Seems pretty impressive from the sales video.

One of the first jobs I need to do (when the weather cools down a bit) is replace the Record wheel kit with some rotating castors (I've got some workbench ones that lift the "bench" up off the ground to engage the wheels). There isn't enough room in the workshop to manoeuvre it properly with two fixed wheels and one rotating one.

 

[Lurker]

Well, it's pretty obvious to me what you need to do next....


Get another shed.

 

[Dr.Al]

Well, it's pretty obvious to me what you need to do next....


Get another shed.

If only I had somewhere to put one :eusa-violin:

 

[the bear]

Nice machine. If you are interested in selling the wheel kit I might be interested in buying it.

Cheers

Mark

 

[NickM]

That will be a great machine.

 

[AndyP]

Nice one Dr. Having it on wheels is key in a small space. Enjoy.

 

[Dr.Al]

Nice machine. If you are interested in selling the wheel kit I might be interested in buying it.

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

I'll let you know once I've figured out what the replacement will look like.

 

[Dr.Al]

Couldn't resist having a quick experiment before the weather got too hot for the garage to be bearable. What better idea than to get the welding gear out on one of the hottest days of the years :?

Knocked two of these up out of some scrap (rusty and pitted and horrible to weld, but it's what I had) and some hardware bits and pieces:



Et voila:



It's definitely not as stable as the record wheel kit when the wheels are down, but it's rock solid when the wheels are lifted up and it's resting on the feet. Most importantly, it's really easy to move in any direction so I can tuck it in much closer to the benches than I would have been able to with the standard wheel kit.

Ideally the wheels would have been further outboard of the base frame, but I'm tight for space and I wanted them out of the way regardless of which way the castor is pointing. When I eventually move house and get a bigger workshop, I'll probably make a new base with a wider footprint.

With that done, I couldn't resist having a go at ripping something in half:



This is what the pieces look like on one edge:



and t'other:



By my standards, that seemed pretty good for a first attempt at lining everything up. I haven't bothered measuring the thickness of the two parts as it was getting far too hot in the garage by that point and I wanted to retreat to a cooler area!

 

[Lurker]

If you get rid of those feet and put a length of wood that gives you the same clearance (as the feet) across whole of the bar, might that be more stable?

Personally, I think you are nuts trying to improve on what was there in the first place, you are already making a larger footprint and creating a trip hazard at the same time.

 

[Dr.Al]

Personally, I think you are nuts trying to improve on what was there in the first place, you are already making a larger footprint and creating a trip hazard at the same time.

What was there in the first place was awful in my garage, so I'm surprised you think I'm nuts. With the standard wheel kit, if I wanted to turn the bandsaw through 180°, I'd have to wheel it out of the garage, turn it round & then wheel it back in. If I wanted to turn it through 90° (necessary for any stock longer than about 500 mm), it was impossible due to how far the front wheel bar has to stick out to lift the saw up. The only way I'd have managed to get it at 90° would be to wheel it out of the garage & then use a sack truck to get it back in.

With what I've made now, I can spin it on its axis. The wheels stick out, yes, but when the saw's in its usual parking place, they're out of the way of anywhere my feet will go (that's why they're where they are), so no trip hazard.

Yes, it's not as stable as the standard wheel kit (ignoring the fact that the wheel kit would have to be used on the rough ground outside the garage, at which point it wouldn't be very stable), but it's perfectly manageable & only an issue when I'm actually moving it, at which point I'm holding it and it won't go anywhere. As soon as it stops (even before I lift the wheels), it stays put quite happily.

 

[Lurker]

Sorry!
I was a bit OTT there.

 

[Dr.Al]

Sorry!
I was a bit OTT there.

:text-lol:

 

[Dr.Al]

Nice machine. If you are interested in selling the wheel kit I might be interested in buying it.

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark

I've moved the bandsaw around one its castors quite a few times already & I can't see me going back to the wheel kit. If you still want it, make me an offer!

 

[9fingers]

Please can we keep the financial discussions between you two via private messaging.

Bob

 

[Woodster]

Just a thought but your fence setup looks like mine did on the 300E? I found changing the fence setup a PITA. I then noticed in an earlier manual that RP used to supply a block between the cast adjuster and the fence. To save money they omitted this part at some point. I made the part from a block of alloy and it makes flipping the fence a lot quicker and easier. Dimensions aren’t critical as long as it fits the adjuster. You’ll need a couple of knobs though and some bolts. I just used M6 coach bolts which engage with the fence fine. M6 Cap head socket screws secure the block to the adjuster. I can give more details but I doubt you’ll need them.

 

[Dr.Al]

Just a thought but your fence setup looks like mine did on the 300E? I found changing the fence setup a PITA. I then noticed in an earlier manual that RP used to supply a block between the cast adjuster and the fence. To save money they omitted this part at some point. I made the part from a block of alloy and it makes flipping the fence a lot quicker and easier. Dimensions aren’t critical as long as it fits the adjuster. You’ll need a couple of knobs though and some bolts. I just used M6 coach bolts which engage with the fence fine. M6 Cap head socket screws secure the block to the adjuster. I can give more details but I doubt you’ll need them.

Thanks: I haven't had the need to do anything with the fence yet (apart from make it taller with a bit of plywood) but that looks like a sensible mod. I'll add it to the list!

 

[Dr.Al]

Please can we keep the financial discussions between you two via private messaging.

Bob

Understood: @the bear: PM me if you're still interested

 

[Dr.Al]

I mentioned that I got a thing called a Carter Stabiliser with the bandsaw. I mostly got the bandsaw for resawing, but having seen videos of the stabiliser I thought it would be an interesting addition.

Today I thought I'd have a go and see what it was like to use.

Fairly quick to fit once the 19 mm (3/4") blade was removed and I could then fit one of the 3 mm (1/8") blades that came with it (this one has been heavily used, but the other two are brand new):



For a first test, I cut into a piece of wood from the scrap bin and tried to turn as quickly as I could to get back out again (got carried away and forgot to lower the blade guard ):



I was very pleased to see that the cut was square to the outside faces of the wood; I used my 3D printed radius gauge set to see what the turn radius was:



That's 4 mm outside radius and 5 mm inside radius (the difference being down to the saw kerf).

While I was in a playing mood, I decided to hack the scrap bit of wood up:





There were a couple of places where it cut very quickly (I guess I pushed too hard), so I think the next test will probably have to be trying to follow a (curvy) line and see whether I can do so accurately.

The test after that will be seeing whether I can put it back into resawing mode and have it cut square :?

 

[Woodster]

This is what the original RP part looks like in the manual for a BS300.