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ChatGPT - artificial intelligence.

Peri

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Shropshire
Name
Steve.
Browsing through the news yesterday I found an article about a band of teachers who'd formed a group, with the aim of sharing tips to stop students using artificial intelligence to cheat at exams.

Intrigued, I went to have a look at ChatGPT, to see what kind of answers it would give.

I asked it to explain the difference between climb and conventional milling.

"Climb milling and conventional milling are two different methods of machining with a milling machine.

In conventional milling, the cutter rotates against the direction of the feed. This creates a cutting action that pushes the workpiece away from the cutter, resulting in a slight reduction in surface quality.

In climb milling, the cutter rotates in the same direction as the feed. This creates a cutting action that pulls the workpiece into the cutter, resulting in a better surface finish.

Climb milling is generally considered to be more efficient and produce a better surface finish, but it can be more dangerous because the cutting forces are directed towards the cutter, potentially causing the workpiece to be pulled into the cutter. Conventional milling is considered to be safer, but it can be less efficient and produce a slightly inferior surface finish."

A colleague suggested "What is the correct stance when filing and why?"
The correct stance when filing is to stand with your feet shoulder-width apart, with one foot slightly forward. This stance provides a stable base and allows for a full range of motion in your arms and shoulders. It is important to keep your back straight and to use your legs to support your body weight, as filing can be fatiguing if you are not using the correct posture.

It is also important to hold the file correctly, with your dominant hand grasping the handle and your other hand holding the end of the file. This allows for maximum control and precision while filing.

Having a correct stance and grip helps to ensure that the filing process is done safely and efficiently. It also helps to reduce fatigue and the risk of injury to the hands, wrists, and arms.

Another colleague asked "in milling, how do i work out the correct cutter rpm (in metric units)?"
To determine the correct cutter RPM for milling in metric units, you will need to consider the following factors:

Material: Different materials have different recommended cutting speeds.
Cutter diameter: Larger cutters require slower speeds than smaller ones.
Number of flutes: More flutes on a cutter can handle higher speeds.
Chip load: This refers to the amount of material being removed by each flute per revolution. A higher chip load requires a slower speed.

Once you have considered these factors, you can use a cutting speed chart or a formula such as: RPM = (cutting speed (m/min) x 1000) / (π x cutter diameter (mm))

However, it is important to note that this is just a rough estimate and it's always recommended to start at lower RPMs and gradually increase until you achieve the desired finish and tool life.
It's also important to follow the manufacturer recommendations and consider the tool material, coatings and geometries as well as the machine capabilities and rigidity.

One of our maths lecturers asked it a complicated question about two trains approaching each other on an incline, involving speed, mass, inertia and momentum.
The Chat explained what each property was, how to define it, the calculations used, and finally the correct answer showing all the working out.

The maths lecturer looked at me and shook his head - "Teaching, as a profession, is doomed" he said.
Possibly a bit dramatic, but I can see why the teachers in that group were a bit rattled :)
 
That is very interesting. I think a lot of professions are doomed. AI can deal with most standard legal matters, almost all actuarial analysis, most audit and accounts analysis and reporting...the list goes on.

Humans will need to focus on other things to add value.
 
We are looking at ut for some assessment work we do, what gibd us it still needs a full review by a person. For now.
 
It is only paraphrasing what it found on the internet, without experience of actually doing anything. Would you trust the many humans who do that ?

All that knowledge came originally from people doing stuff. I don't think we are doomed quite yet.

Alarming how it could be used for cheating, it's a very effective plagiarism engine.
 
That's amazing, and terrifying at the same time.

How do you even tackle that in an education environment? Does it give the same answer every time or are they different enough to look like different students work on the same question?
 
Ask it to give you the exact value of Pi :twisted:
 
ChatGPT always produces text that is recognisable as English, almost always produces text that is grammatically correct, mostly produces text that is internally consistent, frequently produces text that is plausible, and sometimes produces text that is correct.

IMO these kinds of AI are best understood as a lossy compression algorithm that condenses a large corpus of text into a data structure that is amenable to producing new text that wasn’t in the original corpus, but is similar. Where “similar” is not clearly defined.

Dangerous when misunderstood, used carelessly, or used for ideology laundering.
Potentially useful too, but not when correctness is of the utmost importance (as it is in teaching).

Yes, some types of human work will be replaced by AI eventually.
 
Trevanion":1z5iuiin said:
That's amazing, and terrifying at the same time.

How do you even tackle that in an education environment? Does it give the same answer every time or are they different enough to look like different students work on the same question?

There's a button at the bottom 'Regenerate answer' that'll give the info in a different way.

I asked it the exact same filing question two more times.

When filing, it is important to maintain a neutral and relaxed stance. This means standing with your feet shoulder-width apart, keeping your back straight, and keeping your shoulders relaxed and level. This stance allows for proper alignment of the body and helps to prevent strain or injury while filing. Additionally, this stance allows for better control and precision in your movements, which is important for achieving a smooth and even filing surface.

When filing, it is important to maintain a comfortable and stable stance to ensure a smooth and accurate filing process. Some key elements of the correct stance when filing metal include:

Standing with your feet shoulder-width apart for balance and stability.
Keeping your back straight and your shoulders relaxed to reduce stress on the body and prevent fatigue.
Holding the file handle with a firm grip, but not gripping it too tightly to allow for easy movement of the file.
Keeping your wrists straight and your elbows close to your body to maintain control of the file.
Positioning the file so that the cutting edge is perpendicular to the workpiece, with the angle of the file adjusted as necessary to achieve the desired result.

By maintaining a good stance, you will have better control over the file and be able to achieve a smoother and more accurate finish on the metal. Additionally, maintaining a good posture will help to prevent fatigue and injury over time.
 
As I understand it ChatGPT gives probabilistic responses which may not always be correct. Not sure where I read it earlier in the week but one suggestion is for educators to embrace rather than fight students using it but to focus on their critique and conclusion from the answer given.
 
RogerS":292kpfi9 said:
Ask it to give you the exact value of Pi :twisted:

What is the exact value of pi?

The exact value of pi (π) is a mathematical constant that represents the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter. It is an irrational number, meaning it cannot be expressed as a simple fraction and has an infinite number of decimal places. The most commonly used approximation for pi is 3.14, but its decimal representation goes on forever and does not repeat in a pattern. The first few digits of pi are 3.14159265358979323846... and so on. The value of pi has been calculated to millions and billions of digits using computers, and the current world record for the most accurate calculation of pi is over 31 trillion digits.
 
i don’t think the automation of most standard legal matters should be delegated to opaque AIs, they should be handled by auditable and understandable logic written by humans in a high level programming language. AI (as the term is currently used) does not strike me as the right technology for legal work except for some use in document & image search, but I guess I don’t see that as legal-specific.
 
I thought I’d try and use it to settle the age old question of whether Waterstones or oilstones are better :lol:

“Waterstones and oilstones are both effective for sharpening, but they have different characteristics that may make one more suitable for a particular task than the other.

Waterstones are typically made of aluminum oxide or silicon carbide and are known for their fast cutting action and ability to produce a razor-sharp edge. They are also easy to use and maintain, and they do not require the use of oil. However, they are more prone to wear and can become dished over time, which can make it difficult to achieve a consistent edge.

Oilstones, on the other hand, are typically made of natural or synthetic materials such as Novaculite, Arkansas stone or Crystolon. They are slower cutting than waterstones and are known for producing a more durable edge. They require the use of oil to lubricate the surface and help remove the swarf. They are generally more durable and long-lasting than waterstones, and they are less likely to become dished.

Ultimately, whether a waterstone or an oilstone is better depends on the individual's preference and the specific task at hand.”
 
Blackswanwood":1q3zf38i said:
I thought I’d try and use it to settle the age old question of whether Waterstones or oilstones are better :lol:

“Waterstones and oilstones are both effective for sharpening, but they have different characteristics that may make one more suitable for a particular task than the other.

Waterstones are typically made of aluminum oxide or silicon carbide and are known for their fast cutting action and ability to produce a razor-sharp edge. They are also easy to use and maintain, and they do not require the use of oil. However, they are more prone to wear and can become dished over time, which can make it difficult to achieve a consistent edge.

Oilstones, on the other hand, are typically made of natural or synthetic materials such as Novaculite, Arkansas stone or Crystolon. They are slower cutting than waterstones and are known for producing a more durable edge. They require the use of oil to lubricate the surface and help remove the swarf. They are generally more durable and long-lasting than waterstones, and they are less likely to become dished.

Ultimately, whether a waterstone or an oilstone is better depends on the individual's preference and the specific task at hand.”

Thats the most coherent, balanced and informative post on sharpening I've seen in years :lol: :lol:
 
As someone who works in a University and sets and marks coursework and exams, I can tell you that this is on our radar, but there are fairly easy mitigations to counteract it. The most obvious way is to alter the type of coursework you set. Give students a graph and ask them to interpret it for example, rather than factual recall or definition type questions, get them to give a presentation in person, give them a viva, produce and explain a poster in person etc. The essay as a piece of written work is particularly susceptible to AI, so we don't set an essay, we ask students to interpret data, or propose an experiment to explore a hypothesis and so on. We will certainly get to the point where AI can provide reasonable answers to these types of problems, but currently all programmes such as ChatGPT are doing is putting a shiny front-end on a google search. The single most obvious way to prevent AI cheating is to bring back face to face in person exams - quite hard to use AI to write an essay for you when all you have is a pen and a piece of paper!

To be honest, the shift in question style to avoid students google-fu skills has been going on since 6 months into the pandemic. We got 24 hours notice to shift all teaching online at the start of lockdown, that was also only a couple of weeks before exams were due. We typically set, quality control and confirm exams 3 months before they are due through a multi step process. It was not possible to re-write these for the first online iteration and the marks reflected the fact that students now had access to the internet, each other, lecture notes etc etc. The next set of exams 6 months later were very different, with question written to test understanding rather than factual recall. It is possible, the sector is still learning, we are getting there but are not there fully yet.

Going back to AI, this is largely an extension of essay mills, where students pay someone else to write an essay for them. This are illegal but the majority are not based in the UK. They are tempting for students but generally not very sophisticated, so relatively easy to spot under certain conditions. The classic example is the poor/failing student suddenly turning in a first class piece of work - it sticks out like a sore thumb. We also use plagiarism detection software for every piece of coursework and also match against different students to look for collusion (a fine line between copying and 'working together to discuss a problem' so definitely not an exact science). Could I spot a first class student using AI to produce a first class piece of work? Probably not in all honesty. Is AI clever enough to produce a mediocre piece of work for a mediocre student? Probably, and this is likely the real danger - excellent students are typically proud of their achievements and want to demonstrate their excellence. I am making a generalised statement here, but it is not the excellent students that are the target market for AI or essay mills. There is so much pressure on students to succeed, from themselves, peers, parents, society, financial reward of a good job etc that it is the weaker students who feel they need to do better that are most at risk. We have all sorts of checks and balances, QC and review within universities, many of which students do not know about for obvious reasons, that to get through an entire 3 year degree on the back of others or AI is pretty much impossible. To do it for specific modules or assessments however is more likely and it up to us as educators to recognise this and mitigate against it.

There is loads more I could write here, on student numbers, societal pressures and quality, but it would potentially veer into politics so I will avoid that avenue other than to say none of this is a simple problem that can be easily solved, and rose tinted spectacles of 'it was better in my day when only x% of students went to Uni' are not that helpful (or true!). I am also in the 'Sciences' where factual recall is perhaps more important than essay writing and therefore easier to mitigate against AI practices, but we are certainly not immune. Once AI becomes much more ubiquitous in society (think about what Alexa can answer now compared to 'Ask Jeeves' 20 years ago!) then as a population you will not want graduates with factual recall, you will want graduates with a different skill set - problem solving, empathy, compassion, teamwork etc that cannot be easily taught by AI. The biggest challenge is getting universities, and society, to recognise this and act now, rather than being 10 years behind the curve and scrambling to keep up. As a society we still equate knowledge with the ability to regurgitate facts, not solve problems. Knowledge is essential for this, but being knowledgeable is not the same as being a problem solver!
 
Peri":2iw3cn9h said:
RogerS":2iw3cn9h said:
Ask it to give you the exact value of Pi :twisted:

What is the exact value of pi?

The exact value of pi (π) is a mathematical constant that represents the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter. It is an irrational number, meaning it cannot be expressed as a simple fraction and has an infinite number of decimal places. The most commonly used approximation for pi is 3.14, but its decimal representation goes on forever and does not repeat in a pattern. The first few digits of pi are 3.14159265358979323846... and so on. The value of pi has been calculated to millions and billions of digits using computers, and the current world record for the most accurate calculation of pi is over 31 trillion digits.


OK...ask it for the 1,004,334,223,458,897 digit :lol:

Then ask it to show you its workings :twisted:
 
StevieB":34xix26u said:
.....Once AI becomes much more ubiquitous in society (think about what Alexa can answer now compared to 'Ask Jeeves' 20 years ago!) then as a population you will not want graduates with factual recall, you will want graduates with a different skill set - problem solving, empathy, compassion, teamwork etc that cannot be easily taught by AI. ...

I think I would want students that questioned what they are presented with, not to take things at face value, to look at different sources to compare and contrast and then form their own evaluation.
 
Lurker":32a37xog said:
The inevitable follow up question:
Are honing guides necessary?

“ Honing guides can be useful when sharpening chisels, as they help to ensure that the chisel is held at the correct angle while sharpening, which can make the sharpening process more consistent and efficient. However, they are not strictly necessary, as chisels can also be sharpened freehand using a honing stone or a sharpening jig. Ultimately, whether or not to use a honing guide is a matter of personal preference and the specific needs of the task at hand.”

It’s afraid to upset either camp :lol:
 
RogerS":bptaydwt said:
OK...ask it for the 1,004,334,223,458,897 digit :lol:

It said '6'

Is it right?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

EDIT
I'm joking, it didn't know :)

Actually, joking aside, if we're looking at a computer system and comparing it to a human mind, the fact that it doesn't know the answer is more.....er.....human?
 
Handwriting.

Yep, that's right.........old fashioned pen and paper. Cheat your way past that and you'll have done well.
 
When the time comes that a lot of the stuff found on the internet was generated by AI, so much that it starts to form a significant part of the AI's training set, what will we end up with ? Computer generated mythology ?
 
Mike G":1lt94opl said:
Handwriting.

Yep, that's right.........old fashioned pen and paper. Cheat your way past that and you'll have done well.

Surely if it's done in your own time (I'm thinking essays rather than exams) it's not that hard to copy out AI generated stuff by hand? It's also then much harder for teachers to check for plagiarism.
 
AI is in its infancy and will get better at pace.

What is "intelligence". I've not looked it up as who knows if google is right? To many it is the ability to comprehend, rationalise and if necessary provide an answer. It can be based on learning and experience and there is no reason why AI can't do this more effectively than most humans on the bell curve of intellect and ability.

Creativity may be a different matter, at least for now. To me creativity is the concept of having a new idea, ideally a useful or pleasing one. "New" ideas may simply be a function of a lack of experience and so are not new at all, but AI overcomes the latter aspect as the database and database checks grow. Whether AI will become truly creative and generate fresh original ideas strikes me as more troublesome, as how do you programme creativity? Of course machines are learning to programme themselves now to solve problems, but that is probably just rationalising historical experience and does not lead to creativity.

AI is the future. Handwriting is a piffling challenge for machine learning as anything legible enough for a human to read is already plenty legible enough for a machine to read. Machines have been able to replicate any handwriting style for years. If we wish to supervise students writing an essay then that works, but works no better than supervising them type it or dictate it. If students wish to cheat then that is their loss (they are kidding themselves as to their abilities) and AI can readily be used to detect most cheating.

What human creativity really needs imo is to accept that machines will replace most administrative tasks soon. We therefore must use our creativity to work out how society will work, how incomes to live can be generated, and how humans will spend our time, once many traditional jobs have been replaced. Most of us on this forum have been fortunate not to have to compete with machines. This will probably not apply to our children and certainly not to their children.
 
Q: How do you program creativity?

A: You conceptualise your data as a multidimensional space then choose points within that space that are not represented directly in your input data.

You might describe regions of space that are close to clusters of points in the input data as “useful” while you might describe regions of space that are distant from useful clusters as “novel”. For a human to recognise creativity, you usually need to balance “novel” against “useful”, but of course you might just get lucky with “novel” spaces that are completely disconnected from “useful” ones.

Are you aware of the image generation AIs like DALL-E and Stable Diffusion?
 
Yes, but I think image generation is relatively easy to be different or divergent but that is potentially
different to a human interpretation of both different and aesthetically pleasing or useful.

My feeling is that this will be incrementally progressive in conventional ways to begin with - as that is easier and faster to achieve and more useful in terms of eliminating labour costs. Lower skills that can be machine learned will be eliminated first, along with obvious mathematical and expensive statistical professions such as actualariasm.
 
Dr.Al":3om80kxb said:
Mike G":3om80kxb said:
Handwriting.

Yep, that's right.........old fashioned pen and paper. Cheat your way past that and you'll have done well.

Surely if it's done in your own time (I'm thinking essays rather than exams) it's not that hard to copy out AI generated stuff by hand? It's also then much harder for teachers to check for plagiarism.


Introducing a few grammatical errors and misplaced apostrophes along the way will help too.
 
There’s nothing intelligent about AI, but my point is that there’s no fundamental technical difference between novelty and aesthetics, there’s just different algorithms (or the same algorithm with different weightings) that pick points in a multidimensional data space. Aesthetic judgements are baked in to Stable Diffusion and DALL-E. Image generation is “easy” because the aesthetic judgments of a large number of humans are easily obtainable from data available on the web. And humans continually generate new data with their aesthetic judgements in the form of social media posts.

I don’t really know what lower skills are, but image recognition, natural language understanding, art, musical composition, journalism, software development are all changing as a result of AI. I wouldn’t dare to hazard a guess as to what those changes will look like, but clearly economic & legislative incentives are key to the development of technology. I wonder why, in a country with a housing shortage and quite standardised building practices, bricklaying is still carried out by humans and not machines, let alone robots? It’s not always obvious which fields are going to be mechanised and when.
 
First there was the pictures, then the text, now the music

https://www.musicradar.com/news/google-musiclm-text-to-music-generator

"Google says that its MusicLM AI model is the best text-to-music generator yet, and the audio examples might just prove it"

EDIT:
And this is AI in action.

[youtubessl]kPAEMUzDxuo[/youtubessl]

On first listen, it might sound like a decent, if somewhat uninspired cover of the 1973 country classic. But the voice you're hearing in the track isn't the sound of electronic musician Holly Herndon's vocal cords - it's the sound of a neural network, imitating her singing voice through the power of machine learning.
 
When factual information is so easily accessible via Internet i wonder why anyone feels exam cheating on factual recall is such an issue. Why is it important to memorise stuff you can check in seconds ?

Interpretation and application of knowledge is what matters and that's what we should be measuring.

I've had the misfortune to work with people highly qualified by our education system and, nevertheless, totally incompetent in real world situations.
 
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