Dave's Shed project (progress)

[Jimmy Mack]

Great Dave, I thought you'd paws for thought, the mineral wool is nasty stuff, best to wrap up than end up a scratching post...I hope you at least found comfort in a cuppa and a kit-Kat.

There's no better way to understand gravity than to work on ceilings!

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[ScotlandtheDave]

Hi all,

It’s been a lovely couple of weeks up in the shire and that's afforded me two whole weekends of effort without the real threat of rain. My notional move in date of bonfire night has realistically slipped a bit, looking more like a "winter wonderland" Christmas party venue now

After cladding the roof the number one task was the floor, via a couple of coats of emulsion on the walls. The first coat was shown in the previous post and i put a second coat on in the dark. Can you tell?

i used 5l on the first two coats and absolutely slathered on a third coat, using a further 5l. Looking a bit better now:

So, on to the floor. Knowing the building wasn't dead square meant i didn't have too many nasty surprises, although it’s easy to see how being off square on a long run could be a disaster, with your finished edge wandering out into the floor or off a joist. I did still have a couple of nervy moments!
I had a couple of very small gaps as two of the short edges, but quickly reasoned out there was nothing i could do to avoid it. So, after a test fit of the first three rows and armed with some PVA and flooring screws I set about laying the floor front to back, minimising the gaps where i could:

Some finished shots from both sides, I’m pretty happy overall with it:

It’s really looking like a good space now, especially with the floor in i have the head height i was looking for and the white paint makes the space feel quite big.

I'm going to paint the floor as it will get bike oil etc. all over it, so any recommendations for floor paint would be great. I'll need to check Chris's workshop thread as I’m sure he used a grey paint on his and the finish looked good.

I also managed to finish my guttering, after my local Wickes taking almost 10 days to get my gutter brackets in. I a delicious twist of irony i forgot i was spacing my brackets at 1000 instead of 500 and duly screwed all my brackets on without thinking I had to go back and buy another 4. Still it will withstand baby elephants rolling off the roof now. I poured a kettle of water in and some ended up in the water butt, but the pic does suggest there is a bit of uphill in there somewhere. Just need to monitor it during a heavy downpour:

The good thing is it will afford a lot more protection to the rear until i get the cladding on as the rain was just pouring off the roof and soaking the membrane and battens.

So, next stage is to resolve a couple of cladding details and get the lower couple of courses clad. I'll post in a bit more detail about this separately.

finally, though, i had an unusual visitor to inspect the works on Saturday:

I have never been that close to a robin before in my puff (pun intended ) at one point whilst sharpening my pencil he was sitting on my trainer watching me. I popped a bit of cracker on the workbench and he came down quite happily to munch it and watch proceedings. Very unusual to see a wild bird so tame.

Anyway, more details and question soon on cladding, but things are coming together!

 

[Mike G]

You're getting there Dave!

Now, take that gutter (and brackets) off, put the bracket at the end furthest from the downpipe as high as it will go, and the one at the downpipe some 25 or 30mm down from that level, string a line between them, and refix. That's an order!! :lol: Seriously, you really don't want water pooling in a gutter. That's where that lump of moss will trap those leaves, and the silt will build up behind, and the ice behind that..........etc. Some wise conservation architect once said "properly control all the water falling on the roof and the building won't fall down on your watch". Don't ever lay gutters horizontally.

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

Now, take that gutter (and brackets) off, put the bracket at the end furthest from the downpipe as high as it will go, and the one at the downpipe some 25 or 30mm down from that level, string a line between them, and refix. That's an order!! :lol: ..Don't ever lay gutters horizontally.

Cheers Mike now I know I am an amateur, but I'm not a rank amateur I did stringline and fix between the two points and it is as high as I can get it on the non downpipe side, but I only accounted for a 15mm drop following the 3mm/m rule online (not so sure about that rank amateur status now ) The guttering does look odd in that pic but im sure it's not running uphill, but there is scope to drop it further so I'll re examine it before the rain sets in!

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

So, with a snippet of daylight left after work today I set about relining my guttering. Sadly Mike was on the money when i removed the section opposite the downpipe and the water ran back towards me

After removing the first attempt i ignored all the precise measurement i'd done before and stuck the gutter hard up against the underside of the roof trim, then dropped it a smidge. I relined the string line from the bottom of the gutter brackets, instead of the top as i did before. Here's a pic of the new line, you can see the mark where the bracket was before. Tell you, thats a 1 in 5 now

After a dod of silicone to seal all my old screw holes (and also to cover the screw heads holding the fascia board on) and refixing everything, the net result is this. Sorry its a bit dark, anything beyond 1830 now is a write-off.It coped fine with a hose-load of water anyway.

I also picked up some Leyland Frigate grey floor paint, so that will be going down before the weekend hopefully. No progress this weekend as i'm away, so more updates as they come!

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

Oh, one other thing, after posting this I realised I'd left my impact driver on the shed roof!

 

[Malc2098]

:lol:

Well sorted!

 

[RogerS]

It could be the camera angle but in that last picture, isn't the rain coming off the roof simply going to track round the radius and down the wall as opposed to falling into the gutter ?

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Good work Dave, the inside looks smashing all painted up, for a moment I thought you'd snuck ahead of me [emoji6] , until I realised you've still some cladding to do ...best get cracking before winter kicks in.

PS. I popped some 50p leaf guards in the down pipe openings.




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[ScotlandtheDave]

Sorry for the delay in responding chaps.

Roger, there is a small gap between the gutter drip board and the corner detail, so the water drips into the gutter. A bit too well, in fact. I filled my 100l water but in a matter of days with the rain recently, so i'm going to have to look at alternatives for getting rid of it. The water butt might be fine in the summer, but it will be constantly overflowing if its like this.

JM - I've got the floor painted too, second coat applied last night. Here's a pic.

Sadly, we had a bit of wind and rain last night and the tarp i tacked over the door came loose and the rain lightly marked the first few inches inside the door. Then one of the local cats decided to wander in whilst it was raining and proceeded to leave muck and pawprints in my drying paint! A bit miffed if i'm honest, but luckily the cat didn't seem to get far before hightailing it out of the shed. i dont have enough paint to do another full coat, so will just try and cover it up as best i can. I know there's no point in getting too precious about it.

So, i need some advice to resolve some cladding details as it's been a nagging issue for a while and not having a plan to make the exterior weather proof is worrying me. I have 3 interfaces to worry about:

1. corner details (cement board for bottom 2 rows, then waney edge larch for the rest)
2. door details (as above)
3. Window details (all timber)

The corner details i think are sussed, see below. Basically screwing a 75mm larch corner post (Dark brown) to some 38*25 battens(minty green) on the edge of the building, then butt the larch up to it. 75mm sounded like a lot but by the time you add the battens, 19mm larch boards and the overlap, i think it will look ok.
For the cement board I've got some 25mm pvc trim to cover it. it might look a bit rubbish but we'll see. If it does i can use it at the roof fascia board joints.

The door details are proving a bit more tricky. Originally i wanted the doors to open out the way for space reasons. However, If i have cladding totalling 75mm on the outside and i try to open the door out through that, it will foul somewhere on the doors path. The other option is to mount the doors on the cladding fixture, but that seems pointless as i have door frames in place for that. So, then i thought about having both doors open in the way, which wouldn't be terrible because they'll both open inwards to the left and towards a wall. Again, we'll have that 75mm cladding to go through before getting to the door, so it might look a bit sunken into the frame, but it will open inwards and i can open it >90 degrees i think.

One thing i can't really afford to do (and i'm kicking myself for only just realising this) is reduce the width of the doorways by too much. I've made both door 861mm wide for reasons lost to the world, but i wanted 850mm wide doors to fit modern mountain bike bars through. I'm sure Mike will be along to suggest fitting some drops to solve the problem but i dont want to reduce the door width any more than i have to. I know if i open the doors inwards then i can add weatherproofing and door seals etc , but dont want these taking away too much usable width. If i open them out the way how do i mount the doors on the frame, but clear the cladding and get a door that can open at least 90 degrees!

I also need to consider what happens to water that runs down the door, because i have to shed that off over the front of the cladding.

A bit of a pickle all in all, but one i'm sure is resolvable. I am really annoyed that i'm this far in and details i know i should have resolved before i started are holding me back, but hey ho. I just have to find the best solution.

My first suggested solution for the cladding is shown in the pic above. I haven't figured out the doors yet, but once i know which way they are going to open i'll work out the details. So, as it stands in the pic above i've taken a 75mm larch post, flush mounted it to the edge of the doorway and planned to rebate 35-50 mm out of the larch post to accommodate butting the larch against it. I'll probably run the timber all the way to the bottom of the door frame (not as shown in the pic) and butt the cement board 2nd layer against it. I'd then create some sort of door threshold to cover the top of the bottom cement board plank. I'd mirror this on the upright on the opposite side. It looks a bit chunky but i dont think anything thinner would last as well?

I'm not even sure if this is making sense any more, so please let me know if i'm talking gibberish and i'll try to illustrate it better..

Cheers

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

I've made both door 861mm wide for reasons lost to the world, but i wanted 850mm wide doors to fit modern mountain bike bars through. I'm sure Mike will be along to suggest fitting some drops to solve the problem

My bike bars are actually 750mm wide, so I do have some room to spare. I haven't just bolted a scaffolding pole to the forks

 

[Mike G]

If you want the doors to open out and go more than 90 degrees without fouling the cladding, then you need parliament hinges, or an equivalent, which move the pivot point outside of the line of the face of the door. If the pin sticks out, say, 30mm, then the door will clear a 60mm obstacle when it opens 180 degrees.

I'll have to have a look at the rest later.

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

Thanks Mike,

For reference i have no burning desire for the doors to open a particular way. In many cases i think it might be better if the doors open inwards, but you lose some floorspace that way. Not a concern for the bigger workshop space, but might restrict a bit on the smaller space. I just didn't find much on the web about the best way to configure doors within shed spaces and how to mount them with the cladding. Your input will be appreciated as always

Cheers

 

[RogerS]

If it were me I'd go for outward opening doors for the same reasons that you mention. It's also a lot easier manoeuvring long or awkward shaped items in and out.

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

Couple of small updates for you, although i am trying to shift focus to resolving how the cladding will work to get the building largely watertight before the weather turns really bad. Mikes most recent update on his house gave me a great insight into how it should be done, so i'm beavering away.

However, to delight and entertain:

I painted and fitted my skirting. Unlikely to win me any piecework as a finishing joiner, but it'll do.

ps. look how manky the floor is already!

I also fitted doors, albeit the flimsiest doors in the world. A screw in the OSB means i can hook and rehook without wasting staples and saves me putting staples through the membrane repeatedly:

I also temporarily fitted my window as i was sick of the strips of membrane flapping around. Makes it a lot more weatherproof and lets me visualise how the cladding will interface. a big flap of leftover EPDM provides a bit of sealing and lets water drain off. Pretty good fit all round, quite chuffed.

Next stage is to nail down the cladding interfaces and just get the stuff ordered - i've been at it long enough i just need to start or it will be lambing time before its done!

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Nice skirt Dave...or is it a kilt? [emoji3] (boom-Tish)

I like the grey skirting, might copy that detail myself [emoji106]

I deliberated and stalled at various points and in particular on the cladding detail around the windows. You're right to crack on through, there might be a bit of 2 steps forward 1 back, but it'll make sense in the end...keep thinking about water and where it's gonna go, could sit, can it dry out? IE. is there ventilation? I did post a PDF link to cladding detailing around windows/openings, I think (*scratches head*). Let me know if you'd like me to dig it out.

Water is your nemesis or in IT terms 'end of level boss'

Jim

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[RogerS]

...... or in IT terms 'end of level boss'

.....

:?: That's a new one on me. What's it mean ? Google yields nowt.

 

[cadman_4]

Guess we're talking arcade games and the like


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[Doug]

There was an end of level boss on each level of "streets of Rage" I seem to remember, though I've a feeling that was back in the 80's :shock:

 

[Jimmy Mack]

...... or in IT terms 'end of level boss'

.....

:?: That's a new one on me. What's it mean ? Google yields nowt.

Ah... yes, a bit of a tenuous link to IT, cadman_4 & Doug are right...with the gaming ref.

Here's a Wiki link ...but I'm sure you've better things to do

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_(video_gaming)

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

...... or in IT terms 'end of level boss'

.....

:?: That's a new one on me. What's it mean ? Google yields nowt.

Ah... yes, a bit of a tenuous link to IT, cadman_4 & Doug are right...with the gaming ref.

Here's a Wiki link ...but I'm sure you've better things to do

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_(video_gaming)

I spent many, many hours playing Streets of Rage as a kid!

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

I’m rueing the lack of daylight now, wish I had started earlier. I basically only have weekends, and not many of them left now before Christmas! However, not much I can do about that now. I hate working under time constraints, because that’s when silly mistakes happen

So, I ordered my cladding last week, both Cement Board and Timber. I’ve gone with C18 slate Grey Cedral lap weatherboard, with corner trim and outrageously expensive paint. I’ve also got 75 slices of Larch tree coming in a couple of weeks, so need to get the cement board fitted first.
The first challenge to overcome was how to cut the Cedral cement board. The options appeared to be expensive and dusty saw blade, cheap Score and Snap knife, or expensive purpose built guillotine. However, the more I started looking at the guillotine I was convinced the unit was the same as the myriad of laminate flooring cutters available online. A quick Amazon Warehouse purchase later and I had a new cutter for £24, despite the fact it was labelled as used. Was it a success though? Read on :shock:

First up, the Foreman cleared us to start work:

Then it was removing the battens on the side, as I’d placed them too high. Annoyingly the stainless screws I used liked to snap the heads off, so it was a bit tough removing the old battens, but I managed it without any damage and refixed.

Next up, a crude but effective jig to create my packer strips for the bottom board, I cut loads which was just as well as they liked snapping down the grain.

Fillets fixed – can anyone spot a problem yet?

Next up I had to cut the corner pieces to size and wanted a nice clean edge, so clamped it up in some waste wood and used my evolution rage saw to cut the aluminium. The finish was almost as good as the factory cut, very happy indeed.

There’s not a lot holding the corners up, but there’s not a lot of need to. Anyone spot the flat batten tops? Idiot. Don’t know what I was thinking, probably worrying about the setting sun… Nice clean cut though

So, just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse, I tried my laminate cutter. It was a triumph!

The cut was as good as the factory edge, so chuffed indeed with it. A slather of paint and it was time for a test fit, which was broadly ok, nay good, but the top board wasn’t set dead level, which makes me wonder if the bottom board was. There was a sliver of batten poking below the bottom board, the corner pieces seemed to be at different heights, the battens were cut flat at the corners and worst of all, I forgot to fit my insect mesh…

So, next bit of daylight it’s all coming off to get sorted properly. The good thing is I know what to do and how I’ll do it, which should speed up the process for the other three sides. I am slightly nervous that with the strange levels I’ve encountered to date that it will be difficult to maintain perfect levels across the board, but I am splitting hairs now. My trusty laser level will help too..

Overall though I’m quite pleased with the look and think it will work nicely against the larch. I’ll update again once the wood is here!

 

[Malc2098]

Looking good and picking up tips for my impending!

 

[Dan0741]

Oooooh Dave its hotting up now matey! Sorry if I missed it but are you painting the Larch? I did but have since felt the weathered look would be quite appealing.

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

Thanks guys.

Dan I'm leaving the larch untreated, we'll see how it looks in a years time!

I did laugh at your comment, things are hotting up just as it's cooling down for winter [emoji23]

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

Hi all,

Sorry, it’s been a while since i last posted an update, but things have moved on here, albeit slowly. I've had comments from a few people now along the lines of "you're still building that shed?" but they just don’t understand, man :lol:

Anyway. Last time I’d left you I’d forgotten to put the insect mesh on the side below the cedral. Helpfully, almost 40% of the screws I’d used to install it snapped at the head on removal and at least 4 snapped again when trying to remove the shank. I really wouldn't recommend the TurboGold stainless screws, a very frustrating product indeed!

Anyway, not a huge amount of pictures because daylight is a constant challenge and it’s not actually very interesting but a shot from our local green space of some larch trees to show how pretty this time of year is, with all that lovely low light...

So, an obligatory shot to show i did actually install the insect mesh...

Also, once I’d removed the previous attempt i spent an inordinate amount of time measuring and levelling to ensure the cladding ran in parallel lines along the building. I'm not entirely sure what i got wrong, but even the laser level was confounded by the back corner, where the cladding was a few mm below the corner piece. I couldn't be bothered trying to resolve it all because the other three sides looked good enough, so on it went. I had to buy some fibreboard jigsaw cutters to do the cut-out pieces under the door frames, but the laminate cutter was the star of the show. Best 20 quid I’ve spent so far.

So, last Friday i got some larch of my own

probably far more than i need but I’m not a QS (and unlikely to get a job as one :lol: ) and the sawmill were not too forthcoming with advice. Still, i have plans to make a bin store for our ever-growing collection of waste bins, so it will get used. Its lovely stuff though.

Some finished shots of the cement board cladding and the larch corner posts in place. They do look meaty, but the cladding will come almost to the face, so should look a bit more proportionate soon. I'm hoping the walls can take the weight...

the cladding is officially coloured "C18 slate grey" but it looks quite blue / purple in these pics. It does look nice against the larch though in its current colour. Note the ripped strip of larch for the kicker for the bottom board, might as well use it up. I could perhaps have been a bit more inventive with the interface between the cement board corner and the post corner, but again time is of the essence now as daylight and weekends are at a premium. We'll see what it looks like when it’s all on.

A slightly skew-whiff butt joint because of a dodgy jigsaw cut, but will be hidden by the door step

It’s not the nicest stuff to work with, but hopefully it will still be looking ok many years after timber in a similar proximity to the ground would have rotted away.

Next step is a full weekend shift to get as much cladding on as possible, then start thinking about doors! I recently bought a new router and cutting bits, so rebated edges will abound in the next pics

On a final note, it’s great to see more workshop builds getting off the ground (Mark, Malc) so following with interest and feeling your pain about building at this time of year!

Frozen fingers signing off for now.

 

[Dan0741]

Looking Good Dave, the larch looks fantastic, both that on the ground and the ones standing!

 

[Malc2098]

Can't wait to see that larch hanging!

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Yes, I agree the Larch look great, you're going to enjoy fixing it up. How are you fixing BTW...Stainless steel brads or screws? (Ideally with a SS friendly driver bit)

Looking for to it.

Jim

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

Yes, I agree the Larch look great, you're going to enjoy fixing it up. How are you fixing BTW...Stainless steel brads or screws? (Ideally with a SS friendly driver bit)

Hi Jim / all, Thanks for the comments, i do think it looks fab on the deck and even better in place!

A few pics to surprise and delight:

Firstly, using offcuts to make my kicker board - easier to use than wedges. I have literally a shed load anyway.

The first few boards installed. Definitely a bit weird trying to work with stuff that's purposefully not square, but quite easy and quick to install once we had the formula worked out.

I thought about board spacing perhaps a little late on this side, as it’s a bit "bunched" at the top, but not terribly noticeable I’d say:

They also don’t stick out too far beyond the corner post until the very top, which is good. scribing the top board to fit into the joist spaces took ages, but worth it to get a solid piece in there.

Here's the method i used to ensure the screws from the board above didn't hit the board below. Essentially line up the laser and whack the board on, pilot drill at the battens and screw in using 60mm SS screws (my driver bit seems quite SS friendly Jim )

a couple of finished shots. I knew it would be next to impossible to line up perfectly across all the edges, so didn't really bother. I kept the number of boards even though (or odd, there are 9 )

More work needed this weekend, I’ve got both sides done and would like to get the front face done this weekend, as I’m away on training next week and will have few opportunities between now and the end of the year

 

[Malc2098]

Tasty!!

 

[Dan0741]

Nice work Dave. Thats something I never considered with waney edge. I used sawn edges so working out the spacing and level was easy. What approach did you use, an imaginary bottom line drawn on the board or the center of the board maybe?

 

[9fingers]

Is it just my set up or are these picture incredibly slow to load?

I know the forum software and dropbox photo hosting don't get on

but this host livefilestore.com is a new one on me?????

Bob

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Is it just my set up or are these picture incredibly slow to load?

I know the forum software and dropbox photo hosting don't get on

but this host livefilestore.com is a new one on me?????

Bob

Ok here bob...

but we do have a 51 mbps :eusa-dance:

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Looks great Dave, tidy work. I used the laser too on the cladding...pretty much for every board, so useful (unless it's sunny :lol: )

Jim

 

[Mike G]

Looks great!! Don't forget your insect mesh at the eaves...

 

[timothyedoran]

I have just done a mamouth 10 page read through in one sitting.Your work looks really good and I hope that I will be able to make my planned shed/workshop look half as good. Well done that man

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

I have just done a mamouth 10 page read through in one sitting.Your work looks really good and I hope that I will be able to make my planned shed/workshop look half as good. Well done that man

Thanks Tim, welcome to the forum! Glad to hear you enjoyed the thread, that must have been some sitting to read all my posts in one go

I've not made a lot of progress since Christmas really, with the weather being a bit variable. The shed has survived its first bout of high winds and snow though and its still standing The cladding is basically complete, just the window reveal and door facings to do. The window is looking great, but not 100% finished, so will post some pics when its complete. Here's a pic of the frontage though. I'm really happy with the finish and the top board wasn't as much faff to cut around the roof joists as i thought it might be..

My electrician chum was round today, so we're shortly going to get the wiring plumbed in to make the shed live, then once the doors are on and the partition is up i'll decide on placement of lights and sockets. Then thats basically it! I've pencilled in an opening date of 18th March (a year to the day since the project broke ground), so pressure's on a bit to get finished.

So, next task is to get some doors built. I've decided they will open inwards, so looking at the various options i have and will trawl the other threads for some inspiration.

Great to see a number of other builds progressing too, despite the time of year!

Hopefully more to report soon. Cheers, David

EDIT - 2 things to add.
1. I wont get a job as an estimator any time soon. I have enough Larch to basically do the shed again Going to use some to make a wheelie bin store, for our growing collection of bins, then try and flog the rest.

2. I have probably 15m of 230mm Stainless steel insect mesh that i'd be happy to donate to an upcoming project inc free postage. First come first served. A bit of Pay it Forward to say thanks to the forum for all the advice and encouragement!

 

[AndyP]

I really like that cladding Dave, the un-uniformity of it floats my boat.

Nice of you to offer the insect mesh. Could I ask that you post it up in the For Sale section.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Looks good Dave, and here's to it being finished!

I will take that insect mesh off your hands, and happy to pay for it or make a donation to a charity of your choice.

Cheers
Mark