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[AJB Temple]

Anyone else buy whole serrano or iberico hams?

I am looking for a quality supplier and sensible price. Usually they are only seen in the supermarkets at Christmas for some reason. Aldi actually had some very good stuff this year. Even Waitrose got in on the act.

Reason: Since I had fairly big deal stomach op 4 months ago, I have found my tolerance for many foods is really bad (constant debilitating IBS). So I am now eating no bread, grains, cakes, cereals, milk, cream, yoghurt, fizzy drinks ....tedious list could follow. Eating this stuff causes IBS within a few minutes which is "travel limiting"

But I can eat cured meats with no ill effects. I have a ham on the go (bought at Christmas but just started) and would like to replace it. Obviously I have googled, but the quality is a total punt. So I know this is a ling shot but if anyone has good experiences please tell.

 

[droogs]

Adrian, why not turn some of the big pallet crates you have in air drying boxes for making your own charcuterie. It is a great tasty hobby to have and very easy to do if you have a bit of free time to prepare the meat properly. I can give you a list of some great books available on kindle about it all.

 

[AJB Temple]

This kind of thing:



This is the one on the go currently. About 5kg I think. Stand is a small commercial one by Beretta (same as gun people I wonder?): it's brilliant as the stainless bit folds down. Only £8 plus postage from an antique dealer on eBay.

(And for those who know me, yes I know I have still not fitted any cupboard doors or drawer fronts yet. There is no need to point this out, especially to my wife

 

[AJB Temple]

Alan - yes please re books. I don't mind giving charcuterie a try. That is a damn good idea.

 

[Tiresias]

Anyone else buy whole serrano or iberico hams?

I am looking for a quality supplier and sensible price. Usually they are only seen in the supermarkets at Christmas for some reason. Aldi actually had some very good stuff this year. Even Waitrose got in on the act.
...
I have a ham on the go (bought at Christmas but just started) and would like to replace it. Obviously I have googled, but the quality is a total punt. So I know this is a ling shot but if anyone has good experiences please tell.

We have had exactly the same problem. I have looked for hams other than at Christmas, but only found very expensive ones from specialist suppliers.

And we have done something similar to what you have – buy two, and keep one in abeyance. In fact, the second is about to be broached (if that is what you do to hams), the remains of the first having been relegated now to cooking purposes.

If you find anywhere reasonable I’d be delighted to hear of it.

We buy serrano rather than iberico. And, I think last Christmas might have tried one of the Aldi ones, possibly on your recommendation – I believe you mentioned it at the time. We’ve also had them from M&S, Waitrose, Tesco and Asda. All pretty similar in quality, as far as my jaded palate can discern. Or rather the variations are not down the the shop from which you buy it.

 

[greeno]

If cured meats are the way to go for you, think about things like biltong and jerky.

We make it and it's simple. Drying box you can start with a plastic crate and light bulb.

Venison is a good one to do and good value if you go direct to a stalker.

 

[RogerS]

Have you tried I Camisa in Old Compton Street ? I used to go to their olive oil tastings when I worked in London. I reckon they will have some.

 

[TomTrees]

Can anyone tell me why those cured hams like pancetta and similar salami leave a bad taste in ones mouth if they happen to smoke ciggys?

Sorry if ya haven't noticed :lol:

 

[Guineafowl21]

I have a whole leg curing in a muslin wrap at the moment. My brother, who lives near Madrid, gave me a jamon rack (and long knife) some years ago, but it would be very easy to make. Happy to post pics/dimensions.

A good, have-a-go type book for these sorts of things is Food DIY, by Tim Hayward. You won’t rival the likes of Iberico pigs, which are, as you probably know, a particular breed fattened on acorns to give the melty, unsaturated fats and flavour. But it will be very nice, and more importantly, yours.

Useful supplier for all things meaty is Weschenfelder.co.uk.

 

[droogs]

For Adrian

Homeproduction of quality meats and sausage by Stanley Marianski

Meat Smoking And Smokehouse Design by Robert Marianski, Adam Marianski, Stanley Marianski

Little Book of Charcuterie

Charcuterie Made Simple by James Rockwell

all available on kindle unlimited for "free" and for not much more to buy

hope you find them interesting

 

[AJB Temple]

Ian and Alan. Thanks. That's helpful. I will take a look.

Now I need to find if I can actually buy decent whole legs. Not quite sure how to go about that in these parts.

 

[Craig Salisbury]

Not to go full hippy, but have you tried probiotics? My mum has godawful IBS and about 3 weeks after she started taking bioglan ultra flora everyday she has seen a huge improvement.

might be something to give a go if you haven't already.

As for ham, im only good at eating it, so no help there, sorry

 

[AJB Temple]

Hi Craig

Yes, I have tried probiotics including making kimchi and yoghurts. But thank you for trying to be helpful: I appreciate that. Members here who know me have brought special foods and given a lot of support.

This is actually a genetic issue that came down the maternal line and grabbed me and also, I am distressed to say, my son. He has it worse than me. The genetic component requires periodic surgical intervention, and also has the effect of at times making me fat and at other times thin as a rake. On the bright side I know where every public and shop loo is, in pretty much the whole of the South East from Sittingbourne to Guildford :lol:

Adrian

 

[Guineafowl21]

Ian and Alan. Thanks. That's helpful. I will take a look.

Now I need to find if I can actually buy decent whole legs. Not quite sure how to go about that in these parts.

I rear and slaughter my own, but there’s no reason a good butcher wouldn’t supply one, perhaps with some notice.

 

[Craig Salisbury]

Hi Craig

Yes, I have tried probiotics including making kimchi and yoghurts. But thank you for trying to be helpful: I appreciate that. Members here who know me have brought special foods and given a lot of support.

This is actually a genetic issue that came down the maternal line and grabbed me and also, I am distressed to say, my son. He has it worse than me. The genetic component requires periodic surgical intervention, and also has the effect of at times making me fat and at other times thin as a rake. On the bright side I know where every public and shop loo is, in pretty much the whole of the South East from Sittingbourne to Guildford :lol:

Adrian

I'm sorry to hear that, we have come to know all the go-to toilets around Bath for the same reason. Luckily there's plenty of country pubs to dip into when mum feels the calling, so a slither of a silver lining.

Best of luck with it

Craig

 

[RogerS]

I'm not sure that 'slither' is the best word under the circumstances :lol:

Adrian...you have my sympathies. Genetics can be both boon and bludgeon.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I went on a Smoking and Curing course a couple of years ago. Near Bristol. Steve Lamb. Ithink, ran it. It was Excellent, although my own attempts have been a lot more disappointing.
I thnk it was called Vale House. Recommended for a fun day.
DIY
S

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks Steve. I will enquire. Having read a few things on the interweb now, it seems simple enough but with unpredictable results. Many people whop used the River Cottage book and method, reported ham that was far too salty. Some comments on other books suggest they are superficial (for example not being clear about differences in salt mix, which can be critically important). One of the key things, for whole hams anyway, seems to be getting hold of absolutely freshly slaughtered meat to start with. That could be a challenge.

 

[Cabinetman]

Thanks Steve. I will enquire. Having read a few things on the interweb now, it seems simple enough but with unpredictable results. Many people whop used the River Cottage book and method, reported ham that was far too salty. Some comments on other books suggest they are superficial (for example not being clear about differences in salt mix, which can be critically important). One of the key things, for whole hams anyway, seems to be getting hold of absolutely freshly slaughtered meat to start with. That could be a challenge.

Well I can quite believe it would be very salty, we ingest about a 10th of the salt that people used to, in fact I was reading the other day that a lot of people nowadays are completely deficient in salt, which can cause all sorts of problems.

 

[AJB Temple]

I've ordered a couple of books from Abe. I am a bit addicted to second hand books. Pristine hardbacks for £3 each including postage in the case of these two.

 

[droogs]

Which books have you gone for Adrian?

 

[AJB Temple]

Actually 3 - meat smoking and smokehouse design as recommended above=, which was £1.20

Home smoking and curing by Keith Erlandson £3.10 hardback
Art of Charcuterie by John Kowalski £3.50 hardback

I don't have a Kindle reader or kindle subscription and I prefer books anyway, so my choice is somewhat governed by what I can find in the second hand cook book sections online. The Kowalski book is £81.40 on Amazon - maybe they just make the prices up. Abe had one in a UK seller for £3.50 inc. postage.

I might buy the River Cottage book as well if I find a nice cheap one

I've watched a few online videos of people doing salt curing. In particular a Canadian guy who bought half a pig, butchered it and salted a full hind leg in a plastic box. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcfwDzxclA
Seems very wasteful of salt but the process was extremely simple. The main issue that I will need to deal with is the hams will need to be hung for a year in an environment where heat and humidity is reasonably under control. My former music room might be fine for that as I can hang a couple of hams high up from the beams. Or I can make one of my pallet boxes into a ventilated curing chamber. Possibly even a cold smoker.

He coated his in a lard and pepper mix rubbed all over after salt curing, and then hung for a year. I could do the same and wrap in muslin. My main worry is not getting something so salty that I won't eat it as there seems to be a wealth of opinions about how long to leave in salt and whether to dry salt or brine. Before I risk it I will read up a lot more on cure mixes. Some people use a mix of salt, sugar and saltpetre. Some add herb concoctions. I am trying to get close to a serrano or iberico traditional ham style.

Still need to source suitable meat, but first the books need to arrive.

 

[spb]

The Kowalski book is £81.40 on Amazon - maybe they just make the prices up. Abe had one in a UK seller for £3.50 inc. postage.

Closer than you might think to the truth - there are sellers out there on most of the marketplace platforms that will list books, especially unusual or rare ones, that they don't have by looking for someone else's listing, adding £x to the price, and listing it themselves. Costs them nothing, and if for some reason someone does order it from them, they'll just pass the order on to the other seller who (hopefully) does have it in stock.

Every so often you'll find a book where the original seller has either sold or delisted it, and all the listings are now automated ones. At that point they all keep re-checking the marketplace, increasing their price because the lowest price listing has gone away, repeat ad absurdum.

 

[Steve Maskery]

You do need a lot of salt for this, and it has to be the good stuff, Pure Vacuum Dried or PVD. I asked Steve Lamb what the difference was between that and table salt. He called the latter "the ar$e-end of salts". It also gets rather manky during the process, so you don't want to be using it more than once.
The cost is part of the price you pay for the end product, I'm afraid.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks Steve.

I have a lot of salt in a couple of sacks (used for fish pond dosing). However, will have to see if it is PVD. Otherwise will buy a sack.

Actually just checked. It is PVD food grade. I have a couple of 25kg unopened sacks. Maybe that will be OK? It's £12.50 for 50kg if I buy catering PVD. Sounds like that should be enough to do 2 or 3 hams. Pure guess.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Oh, you've got loads there, you're fine.
I hope you have better end results than I did!
S

 

[AJB Temple]

What was wrong with yours Steve?

The tales of woe online seem to be:

too salty
didn't get the blood out of the main artery so tainted the meat
insufficient cure so meat spoiled
quality of pig not as good as those Italian or Spanish ones.

It is a bit daunting, but I can't help thinking people have been doing this for centuries and it can't be that difficult surely?

 

[Tiresias]

If all you want is the pig curing section (runs to maybe a dozen pages from memory) I'm happy to scan those for you from my copy.

 

[AJB Temple]

Ooh yes please.

 

[Tiresias]

No problem. It’ll be Thursday or Friday, because all my print cook books are down in the Borders, and I am not just now.

For what it is worth I have tried the River Cottage method for salted pork belly. It is salty. Rimmat or rimmad fläsk analogue. Too salty for most modern palates. And for my doctor’s liking. I’m quite fond of it.

And, as an aside, if you are thinking of hanging your hams indoors, do be sure they are not dripping. I stayed somewhere (Landmark Trust perhaps) where the stone flagged floor of the storage/curing room had deep circular depressions beneath where each ham would have been. Eroded by ham juice I was told.

 

[Steve Maskery]

What was wrong with yours Steve?

The tales of woe online seem to be:

too salty
didn't get the blood out of the main artery so tainted the meat
insufficient cure so meat spoiled
quality of pig not as good as those Italian or Spanish ones.

It is a bit daunting, but I can't help thinking people have been doing this for centuries and it can't be that difficult surely?

It just wasn't a very nice taste The flavour was the problem, not the saltiness.
S

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks T. I think you already have my email. Quite a lot of people who follow the Hugh FW method say it is way too salty and that would put me right off as I have weaned myself off so much salt and my wife would not eat it.

In that context a friend of mine runs a former M* restaurant not far away (star lost due to lockdown) and we ate there recently. He's a superb cook but some of it was way too salty for me. Chefs can over season habitually, especially high end cooks. I cook for my wife and a female friend mostly, and they don't like it and tell me off.

The Serrano ham I am currently nibbling at constantly is firm, dark red and hardly salty at all. That's what I want. I don't care if I have to mature for 2 years rather than one. If it works I will do a production line of 2 or 3 a year so I can do one as a gift.

It's also interesting what knife is needed to get tissue thin slices. There is a definite knack to it, which I have not mastered yet. All the skin and fat trimmings are eagerly consumed by the garden birds. This includes, to my astonishment, a barn owl this evening.

 

[HappyHacker]

I can't help on the curing apart from noting that a friend used to cure meat from his own pigs and it was very nice, but he has moved to a different part of the country and we have lost touch.

Finding freshly butchered meat should not be too much of a problem however.
There are small holders all over the country keeping a couple of pigs. The problem with pigs is that if you breed from them you get a litter of approx 12 and then getting rid of 12 pigs can be a problem and expensive if you have to feed them until they are fully grown.

If you can search out smallholders, local abattoirs and butchers may be able to help, with pigs locally you may well be able to reach a mutually beneficial arrangement. The other advantage of smallholders is they often go for the rare breed pigs or crosses which take longer to mature and usually taste better that the commercial breeds that are bred for quick growth which minimises feed costs.

Local agricultural shows may well have pig classes where you may well be able to find suitable smallholders.

I know a couple locally who have the occasional pig for sale but they are the wrong end of the country to you and they usually have friends placing orders months in advance.

Good luck

Kevin

 

[Jar944]

This might be a silly question, but do you not have "County ham" over there? That was usually the start of a good pršut. It just takes about 12 months.

 

[Tiresias]

Ooh yes please.

Here you go, photos rather than scanned. From the original River Cottage Cookbook. Essentially the same info is repeated in the Meat book. This is more concise.

















Let me know if you can't read it, and I'll scan it properly. And I have a better haggis recipe than HFW. SO there.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thank you. Most kind.

As it happens I have the meat book. Didn't think to look there.

 

[9fingers]

This might be a silly question, but do you not have "County ham" over there? That was usually the start of a good pršut. It just takes about 12 months.

I can't say Ive ever come across "County Ham" before. I do see Ham marked by a particular county e.g. Wiltshire Ham but that usually means it is just locally produced ham. Folks here are becoming aware of minimising food miles and anything looking local attracts them.

Bob

 

[Lurker]

This might be a silly question, but do you not have "County ham" over there? That was usually the start of a good pršut. It just takes about 12 months.

I can't say Ive ever come across "County Ham" before. I do see Ham marked by a particular county e.g. Wiltshire Ham but that usually means it is just locally produced ham. Folks here are becoming aware of minimising food miles and anything looking local attracts them.

Bob

Nothing to do with the place of origin,Bob.
Wiltshire curing method is a thing though.

 

[9fingers]

Ah - Every day's a school day here

Bob

 

[AJB Temple]

Surely it is "country" ham. Term used a lot in the US to mean home cured. (according to YT).