HDL LDL

[wallace]

I got some bloods done recently and then a call saying quack would like a chat about cholesterol. I recall some on here might have highish readings but disagree with the use of statins. Weirdly I changed diet quite alot about 7months, lost a couple of stone, found a few new holes in my belt so I am a bit shocked by the results. I dont really get the HDL/LDL thing.

 

[AJB Temple]

This is a complex area that I researched at length. My younger brother had an extremely severe stroke due to high cholesterol and (possibly associated) hypertension. He regarded himself as fit and did not take recommended medication. You may be pre-disposed to issues and despite losing weight your diet may still be an issue for all we know. This is a wood forum, not a medical one, and in your shoes I would take the medical advice, maybe try to see a specialist consultant. You really don't want to risk a stroke or heart attack.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Wallace, I agree with the central point Adrian is making: talk to a local medical practitioner- whomsoever you.know and trust.
I'm in a similar bind to you, with two medical conditions related to ADL/HDL, and I find clear, plain speaking to a knowledgeable, properly trained, individual is both clarifying and reassuring.
The well-meaning on here might provide an incomplete picture and almost certainly, not fully pertinent to you individually.

 

[Steve Maskery]

This is not the right place for medical advice, is it?
I can tell you that my doctors have been trying to put me on statins for several years. I was always agin because of the reported side-effects. A year ago I reluctantly agreed and started to take them. I felt dreadful. I couldn't move when I woke up, getting out of bed was really difficult. I had aches on my aches. I stopped after two weeks and I soon felt better again.
I really don't see the point of extending life if it makes you feel bad.
I'm a big bloke (in the wrong axis) and a doctor recently asked me if I had had my heart attack yet. If or when it happens, I just hope that it finishes me off, I don't want the years of pain and disability that my dad had (starting before the age I am now). Bang, gone, yes please. It's hard for those left behind, of course, but much better for the individual IMO.

 

[RogerS]

OK....here's my take but the GP is correct. Weight loss has nothing to do with lowering cholesterol but may affect it as a side-show.

Your LDL is too high. And your triglycerides are marginal. Your HDL (the good stuff) is too low.

You say that you changed your diet but how did you do that ? What foods did you cut out ?

Cutting out saturated fats will lower your LDL but by how much depends on your own metabolism. I got my total cholesterol down to 5 total .

Thing is are there any other factors to consider ? I was happy with my level of cholesterol and resisted advice for statins. BUT....

I have a legacy (thanks to high cholesterol) of a minor carotid bruit picked up during an insurance medical (OK....just my luck he was a cardiologist moonlighting). Caused by cholesterol 'sticking' to the sides of an artery. I subsequently spoke to a consultant and who enlightened me....you've got some crud inyour arteries. A statin will help glue them back to the walls and help prevent them breaking off....possibly cause a stroke. Decided.

You're very welcome to call me ..

 

[RogerS]

This is not the right place for medical advice, is it?
I can tell you that my doctors have been trying to put me on statins for several years. I was always agin because of the reported side-effects. A year ago I reluctantly agreed and started to take them. I felt dreadful. I couldn't move when I woke up, getting out of bed was really difficult. I had aches on my aches. I stopped after two weeks and I soon felt better again.
I really don't see the point of extending life if it makes you feel bad.
I'm a big bloke (in the wrong axis) and a doctor recently asked me if I had had my heart attack yet. If or when it happens, I just hope that it finishes me off, I don't want the years of pain and disability that my dad had (starting before the age I am now). Bang, gone, yes please. It's hard for those left behind, of course, but much better for the individual IMO.

Change the statin ?

 

[RogerS]

Panthera are recruiting for a clinical trial for Lilly. They are trialling a drug to lower lipoprotein A which is similar to LDL but you really don't want a lot of it although your genes will have a say.

 

[AndyP]

What about the effects that stress has on cholesterol?

I’ve always been accused of being so laid back it’s a wonder I don’t fall over.

 

[Phil]

Agree that this is not a medical advice forum, so I read any comments as just for information.
I have been on statins for at least 25 years, will have a look where my latest cumulative tests are.

What about the effects that stress has on cholesterol?

I’ve always been accused of being so laid back it’s a wonder I don’t fall over.

If I recall your height, maybe better to sit and fall than standing

 

[wallace]

This is a complex area that I researched at length. My younger brother had an extremely severe stroke due to high cholesterol and (possibly associated) hypertension. He regarded himself as fit and did not take recommended medication. You may be pre-disposed to issues and despite losing weight your diet may still be an issue for all we know. This is a wood forum, not a medical one, and in your shoes I would take the medical advice, maybe try to see a specialist consultant. You really don't want to risk a stroke or heart attack.

I would never seek to replace a doctors advice over that of those who post on a wood forum, but I recalled this subject being discussed before in addition I'm sure I will garner more useful knowledge from this place than I would from the 7min phone consultation I will be getting in a couple of days.
Personally I think a forum can and should be used for anything, my posting stats probably consist of 75% machines, 20% life and 5% woodwork. On a welding group a guy started a thread called 'black dog', it discussed his mental health and it could of saved his life.

Roger, I was advised to try a low carb diet by a endocrynologist to help stop crashing blood glucose. Obviously that entailed a big reduction in anything carby. I also increased fruit and veg intake as well as beany lentil, nut things. I removed virtually all junk ie crisps, biscuits and chocolate. I fast for 20hrs a day, 5 days a week.

 

[Phil]

Referring back to OP here are some comparative readings.
Bear in mind I had to change diet and whatever else 4 years ago when diagnosed with the kidney problem. It is another one of those silent killers.

The results have only a couple of reds compared to 4 years ago.
On the last 2 visits to the Nephrologist asked the question "Why are you actually seeing me? Whatever you are doing is right and just keep on." I just muttered that I don't want to see you as it is 1200 bucks a visit.
However on the positive side when the smaller interim tests are done he would just phone me to discuss, e-mail the new script for 6 months and the form for next blood test.

 

[wallace]

Well my estimate of consultation time was off, actual time 3min 41secs . Cardiovascular risk low, never been checked for cholesterol before so nothing to compare. redo in 6months then decide if statins needed.
Within that time H pylori test discussed and if negative have an endoscopy. So much for inefficient NHS.

 

[AJB Temple]

So that's good by the sound of it.

 

[Woodbloke]

I don't pay any attention to those chart thingies 'cos a) it's medical gobbledegook b) I don't understand it and c) I'm not a trained medical professional. Offering any advice on a woodwork forum about these sorts of issues is at best worrying.

I don't take statins 'cos I'm intolerant to the them and I tried at least four different versions; all of them gave me chronic insomnia which is not recommended under any circumstances. There's a newish drug out now, available on the NHS called 'Nilemdo' (Bempedoic Acid) costing about £80 a packet which is quite effective in reducing the nasty cholesterol and that's what I now take with no adverse side effects.

What I do is to go to see the nurse once a year for a blood test regarding PSA (prostate cancer) and cholesterol. Once the results come back (PSA is always zero as I had a Radical Prostatectomy in 2016) the only one that the doc may call be in to discuss is the cholesterol. Thus far it hasn't happened but if and when it does, I'll nip along to the surgery and have a natter with him to see what can be done about it, which may be changes say, to the diet.

Go to the doc for a natter, don't look at the chart thingies. Waste of time and only adds to the needless worry - Rob

 

[wallace]

So that's good by the sound of it.

Yeah, weird I've not been checked for levels in the passed. And she was in such a rush she forgot to discuss the kidney function increased results. Can only assume it was nothing. There is a lot of talk of translators for migrants, I think we should consider them for the natives, not sure where my quack originated, she spoke very quickly and I wasnt sure if her accent was spanish or mexican but it took alot of concentration to get the gist.
I miss my old Dr who remembers putting stitches in my head when I was a kid and you didnt mind waiting longer in the waiting room because you knew he always ran late because he took time to listen.

 

[Phil]

Go to the doc for a natter, don't look at the chart thingies. Waste of time and only adds to the needless worry - Rob

The chart with history is extremely important and once the Doc has discussed with you what they mean and what the effects are, then you know what to look out for. My first visit to the kidney chap was over an hour and most of the time spent on the blood tests.
Also what influences the specific test, diet, alc, exercise etc.
I never knew or even heard about GFR, just another test on the annuals. Was a big wake up call when the level had reached 30 and heading South and was picked up when they did blood tests when the gall bladder decided to pack up. The sonar also showed a nice big stone in the right kidney.
The right kidney is the quarry and also smaller than the left.

 

[Artiglio]

When i changed doctors , i had the new patient / over 55 checks, standard questions and the answer was i had the risk of a cardiac event of 12.5% and the advice was to take statins as my cholesterol was high, when i pointed out that it was no different to my previous results at last gp and they weren’t concerned as the ratios were really good, the answer was this surgery does’nt work on that basis. I then asked for a body fat caliper test as whilst 2kg above the normal weight band my body fat is low , no we don’t offer that, then enquired why the family history of a border line ( fully functional) alcoholic , life long smoker , who never took exercise , had had a heart attack at 50 and died of congestive heart disease - my father , was so important given i’d never smoked, annual work medicals including ecg’s every 4 years, very physical job that require fitness levels better than a front line fireman - can’t change anything it’s what the system does.
So isaid i’ll lose 2 kilos and see you in 3 weeks, did so and statin recomendation cleared. Adjusted my diet a bit and on a retest was sent on my way.
The system is good for determining generalities and risk factors , but seemingly incapable of then taking on board obvious discrepancies. All a matter of doing your bit at home and listening to what the medical profession tells you and working with them.
All that said, i’ve had a concept 2 rowing machine for 20 years, excellent for keeping up a degree of fitness and giving comparisons on how you slow down over the years. You can sign up with the concept 2 website and they email you a daily workout. You must have space in the workshop, well worth looking into.

 

[wallace]

An update on my statin use. I got retested recently and no further action required. I have improved my diet a bit but nothing dramatic, just fruit and veg every day and a bit fasting. I'm pleased I didnt agree to tablets straight away.

 

[AndyP]

That’s great to hear. We would hate to see that ornamental lathe not get finished

 

[Phil]

An update on my statin use. I got retested recently and no further action required. I have improved my diet a bit but nothing dramatic, just fruit and veg every day and a bit fasting. I'm pleased I didnt agree to tablets straight away.

You cant go wrong with that diet, think Mediterranean diet, lean meat (no red) and no processed foods (O sh1t, that includes the ham and bacon )

Have a look at this site and if you join (free) you get menus and recipes.

National Kidney Foundation

37 million people in the U.S. have kidney disease but only 10% know it. NKF is a lifeline for all people affected by kidney disease—the largest public health issue you'll ever hear about.

www.kidney.org

 

[Lons]

Pleased to hear your tests are OK Wallace, once you're on statins it's usually for life.

Did you know that GP practice's get incentive payments to prescribe statins to anyone they consider eligible, usually a 10 year CVD risk of 10% but that was reduced some time ago and it can be offered to those with lower results. I fully understand and agree with the reasons being preventive medication but practice's these days are a business as much as a service and the cynic in me sometimes wonders.

I've always been just below the lower line of hypertension until a few years ago when they moved to goalposts and dropped the targets. My GP at the time, a long standing friend knew that I get white coat syndrome so took that into account and I provided usually a week's worth of home readings which were more accurate and stable but one day he suggested I start taking statins. I declined and his words were "I don't blame you, I wouldn't either but I have to ask".
He retired and on my next checkup, years ago I saw a locum who said "I'm going to prescribe 20mg Astorvastatin". I flatly refused and she got shirty saying she liked to put her patients on statins so I told her I wasn't her patient and promtly left. My record now states "refused statins".

A few years later I did agree to taking a BP tablet (Amlodipine) but my regular GP has never pushed me further on the subject of statins and doesn't feel I need them. If he did and could give me a strong supporting argument I would of course agree.

As said a woodwork forum is no place for medical advice but it's still interesting and informative to hear other veiws and experiences.

 

[marineboy]

My friend’s daughter in law is a consultant cardiologist and she says that if she had her way she’d put statins in the water supply. Presumably, unlike GP surgeries, she has no financial incentive to encourage their use.

 

[AJB Temple]

An update on my statin use. I got retested recently and no further action required. I have improved my diet a bit but nothing dramatic, just fruit and veg every day and a bit fasting. I'm pleased I didnt agree to tablets straight away.

Good news. Well done. Fasting is very effective. On 1st January this year I weighed 133kg (I'm 6' 2") and now I weigh 85kg (13 and a half stone) , which is about what I was when I was 20 and rowing a boat every day at the crack of dawn. So that's a whole wife weight lost . I just decided to eat 1 meal a day and have three satsumas for lunch. Resulted in very linear weight loss. Also required a complete new wardrobe. Keep it up. Eat as near to zero ultra processed foods as you can.

 

[Woodbloke]

....and have three satsumas for lunch.

I heard once about a surgeon in a UK hospital who only ate a small tin of tuna fish for lunch.

Did you also know that the ubiquitous beanz on toast, with a glass of milk provides all that's required for a fully balanced diet? I read years ago about a very worried mum who took her son to the doc's and mentioned that her lad would eat nothing else and was it "good for him?" The doc told her not to worry as everything required for a balanced diet was in that very simple fare. I love beanz on wholemeal toast with extra butter in the beans; apparently also a favourite dish of HM the Queen, so you know what to serve her Adrian if she comes visiting - Rob

 

[AndyP]

Heinz beans are good for the heart
The more you eat the more you …..

Sorry, travelling and bored.

 

[Cabinetman]

I heard once about a surgeon in a UK hospital who only ate a small tin of tuna fish for lunch.

Did you also know that the ubiquitous beanz on toast, with a glass of milk provides all that's required for a fully balanced diet? I read years ago about a very worried mum who took her son to the doc's and mentioned that her lad would eat nothing else and was it "good for him?" The doc told her not to worry as everything required for a balanced diet was in that very simple fare. I love beanz on wholemeal toast with extra butter in the beans; apparently also a favourite dish of HM the Queen, so you know what to serve her Adrian if she comes visiting - Rob

Sorry to have to tell you Rob, but she died last year, we now have King Charles as our Monarch.

 

[AJB Temple]

Heinz beans are loaded with salt and sugar. I regard them as Ultra Processed. Doesn't stop me from having beans on heavily buttered toast, with brown sauce, occasionally.

PS - I thought the Queen had pegged it.

 

[Woodbloke]

Sorry to have to tell you Rob, but she died last year, we now have King Charles as our Monarch.

Sorry Ian, the late QE2 died in September 2022. AndyP was here in Wilton with me and SWIMBO when we left to see her Lying in State at Westminster Hall. True we now have KC3 as monarch but also his missus, the Queen Consort.

Heinz beans are loaded with salt and sugar. I regard them as Ultra Processed. Doesn't stop me from having beans on heavily buttered toast, with brown sauce, occasionally.

Agree about Heinz beanz; the Tesco and Waitrose Organical versions are much better. Wot's all this brown sauce tosh as well? - Rob

 

[wallace]

That’s great to hear. We would hate to see that ornamental lathe not get finished

I think my record for doing a machine was about 13hrs.



I could do a big wadkin lathe in a month pretty much full time hrs. I am enjoying this one and seem to be taking my time.

 

[Cabinetman]

Sorry Ian, the late QE2 died in September 2022. AndyP was here in Wilton with me and SWIMBO when we left to see her Lying in State at Westminster Hall. True we now have KC3 as monarch but also his missus, the Queen Consort.


Agree about Heinz beanz; the Tesco and Waitrose Organical versions are much better. Wot's all this brown sauce tosh as well? - Rob

Never think of Camilla as Queen, probably goes back to Elizabeth’s husband not being a King maybe.
Very nice work Wallace.
Edit, yes I agree a bit of brown sauce mixed in the beans is my go to.

 

[AJB Temple]

Wot's all this brown sauce tosh as well? - Rob

I was brought up in the Midlands. Brown sauce with sausages or in a bacon, sausaage and egg sarnie was essential! You can't put Ketchup with beans on toast so brown sauce is a necessity. Colour and taste contrast.

Remember - I spend my time doing fine dining cooking now and and it is really nice to have some down to earth food on my own time. Tonight will be Ragu (aka bolognaise) with a bottle of Cabernet / Syrah Pays D'Oc 2022 which i've already made a start on....

PS: Beans on toast is greatly improved with a poached or fried (soft yolk) egg on it. My wife disagrees. But she disagrees with everything I say obviously. She thinks runny yolk is disgusting.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Good news. Well done. Fasting is very effective. On 1st January this year I weighed 133kg (I'm 6' 2") and now I weigh 85kg (13 and a half stone) , which is about what I was when I was 20 and rowing a boat every day at the crack of dawn. So that's a whole wife weight lost . I just decided to eat 1 meal a day and have three satsumas for lunch. Resulted in very linear weight loss. Also required a complete new wardrobe. Keep it up. Eat as near to zero ultra processed foods as you can.

Sweet bubbling hades....Adrian, as another seriously insulated bod, my congratulations. I salute you, Sir.

 

[Dr.Al]

She thinks runny yolk is disgusting.

I'm with your wife on that.

 

[AJB Temple]

I'm with your wife on that.

Heathen.

 

[Woodbloke]

PS: Beans on toast is greatly improved with a poached or fried (soft yolk) egg on it.

The only thing worth putting on top of beanz on toast IMO isn't disgusting brown sauce (ye Gods!) but a really strong, crumbly cheddar. Waitrose do a large pack of 'weapons grade' No.7 strength which is our everyday 'go to' fromage - Rob

 

[AJB Temple]

Cheddar is not "fromage". Get a grip man.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

At that strength Rob, "roughage" might be more appropriate....

 

[Lons]

I'm with your wife on that.

Me too, can't stand it but I don't like brown sauce either...or ketchup;.

 

[AndyP]

Dutch cheese has to be my favourite. Edam, for example, the only cheese that is made backwards.

 

[Mike G]

...... Eat as near to zero ultra processed foods as you can.

This. Absolutely this. And that category includes sliced bread, cereals, "yoghurts", and almost any drink in a can or bottle other than milk and water.