Houston - we have a problem

[RogerS]

This is the first phase of the problem we are facing.

Following a fire, rebuilding work is starting and the first stage is erecting the scaffolding. It's not our house. But this is our only access.


Outbound access is workable as the scaffolders will, usually with good heart, move their vehicle. If we have a time-critical event such as a train to catch or a surgery appointment then we will park our car the other side. This is fine when the weather is OK but .....

Ditto inbound for us but the problem lies with deliveries to us. Too many times, delivery drivers will turn off the road but then see the blockage and not unreasonably simply turn round and try again the next day. And the next day. And the next. Which is OK if the delivery is not time critical like plants, fresh game or a bit of stuff I need for the house.

The woman 'managing' (I use the term loosely) the rebuild is clueless. She thinks that it is a simple question of unloading and then moving the lorry off the track. She doesn't realise that that is simply not practical. She is offsite most of the time. She is also economical with the truth ..."I told them to keep the drive clear"....""I told them you had a delivery coming"...um, er, no, I don't think that you did.

We will face the same issues (if not worse) in Phase Two when the rebuilding work starts. In my experience - both doing and employing trades - they like to have their vehicles close by with all their kit to hand. So we're going to probably have at least a couple of vans parked in line. That plasterer is going to be dead chuffed being asked to move it when we want to get out.

However, it is the deliveries that are really messing us up and I cannot see any solution. Maybe you guys can ?

The project is going to run 18 months - two years.

 

[wallace]

Surely its common curtesy to leave access to your place clear at all times. I cant imagine a works van is needed to be on hand that much.

 

[AndyT]

There are now delivery lockers all over the place, at shops, garages, in supermarkets, on street corners etc. The service is aimed at people who aren't normally at home to receive a parcel.

I guess it would be less convenient than home delivery for you, but it might be a good option, as it would put you back in control.

 

[AndyP]

When that place was was operating as a hotel/retreat where was the guest parking? I don’t remeber seeing any. Surely not just that area where I left my car.

 

[Lons]

I thought it was agreed that scaffold would be largely internal Roger.

If it's a public road they probably need an official permission such as a TRO or licence from the highways authority to obstruct it and have to leave access through perhaps even traffic lights.
If private which I think it is then presumably you have legal right of access to your property and they can't just block that without repercussion. You have every right to insist that their vehicles are parked in an area that doesn't adversley affect you.
There is the other aspect of neighbour relationships to consider of course and how far you want to go down that route which could involve expensive solicitors.

 

[AJB Temple]

By the look of it they probably own the drive and you have a right of access over it. It's going to require a legal letter and formal complaint to the planning authorities.

 

[Windows]

I don’t envy you this situation. Presumably you have legal access rights over that land to get to your house. You should decide what level of interference with those rights you’re willing to put up with in the interests of neighborliness.

It would be worthwhile establishing with the other party, in as friendly a manner as possible, that any blockage can only be there as a favour that you are granting them and that the default situation that respects the rights and responsibilities of all parties would be zero blockages. Show them that you want to work with them to help them solve their problem, while carefully reinforcing that the problem of lack of parking for the work vehicles is ultimately their problem, not yours.

If the manager has given a commitment that the way would be clear, you should clarify with them the best method of communication to let them know about blockages and then use that method consistently and unemotionally. I really recommend a rule-based approach to your actions. These situations are very stressful and it’s easy for resentments to build if you give allowances on a case by case basis. Try and eliminate in-the-moment decision-making if you can. You’ll feel better because you know what to do and the other party will soon learn what is acceptable and what is not. Predictability aids understanding.

 

[RogerS]

There are now delivery lockers all over the place, at shops, garages, in supermarkets, on street corners etc. The service is aimed at people who aren't normally at home to receive a parcel.

I guess it would be less convenient than home delivery for you, but it might be a good option, as it would put you back in control.

In principle a good idea but in reality not so easy. For a start, you don't always know which carrier a company is using. If you do get to know, not all companies have the ability to redirect to a drop off location beforehand. Usually once you get the tracking information whih is of no use for perishable items like food.

We only go out maybe once or twice a week and so to make a special journey takes time and a gallon of petrol. On a fixed income, that begs the question 'Why should I have to?'

 

[RogerS]

When that place was was operating as a hotel/retreat where was the guest parking? I don’t remeber seeing any. Surely not just that area where I left my car.

Down the first entrance on the right...the one before you came down. Currently fenced off.

 

[RogerS]

I thought it was agreed that scaffold would be largely internal Roger.

If it's a public road they probably need an official permission such as a TRO or licence from the highways authority to obstruct it and have to leave access through perhaps even traffic lights.
If private which I think it is then presumably you have legal right of access to your property and they can't just block that without repercussion. You have every right to insist that their vehicles are parked in an area that doesn't adversley affect you.
There is the other aspect of neighbour relationships to consider of course and how far you want to go down that route which could involve expensive solicitors.

It's private and yes Right of Access is there in the Title Deeds but in practice legally enforcing that is a very, very, very last and expensive resort.

 

[RogerS]

By the look of it they probably own the drive and you have a right of access over it. It's going to require a legal letter and formal complaint to the planning authorities.

I don't see why planning get involved, Adrian. I really don't want to go down the legal route unless I have to for all sorts of reasons.

 

[Spectric]

Access and peoples rights to it are and can be a right PITA, at the end of the day those scaffolders should be courteous enough to see you before blocking the access and asking if it is ok for a given period of time. It looks like they are not just unloading the vehicle but just taking something off as and when needed, maybe they should just unload and move it to keep the access clear.

 

[RogerS]

Access and peoples rights to it are and can be a right PITA, at the end of the day those scaffolders should be courteous enough to see you before blocking the access and asking if it is ok for a given period of time. It looks like they are not just unloading the vehicle but just taking something off as and when needed, maybe they should just unload and move it to keep the access clear.

I did suggest that to them but there isn't enough room to store it. It does bring up an interesting (and concerning) point re the actual rebuild. The roof needs completely removing but I am told that they will do that from inside the building. But getting the trusses up ? Surely they have to get a crane in as there's scaffolding all round.

 

[Spectric]

But getting the trusses up ? Surely they have to get a crane in as there's scaffolding all round.

A crane is the best way to lift a truss into place, they should never be laid down or man handled in such a way as to try and twist them as it stresses the nail plates. On a positive note a crane charges per hour and normally a roofer will get all the trusses lifted up and placed at one end so the crane can go, then they just move each truss into place and fix so hopefully your access is not obstructed for to long. If they fit a new roof from insiide then it will be a tradition cut roof made on site but that needs skilled roofers which puts up the cost.

 

[RogerS]

A crane is the best way to lift a truss into place, they should never be laid down or man handled in such a way as to try and twist them as it stresses the nail plates. On a positive note a crane charges per hour and normally a roofer will get all the trusses lifted up and placed at one end so the crane can go, then they just move each truss into place and fix so hopefully your access is not obstructed for to long. If they fit a new roof from insiide then it will be a tradition cut roof made on site but that needs skilled roofers which puts up the cost.

Well it is Listed ! So maybe they will need skilled roofers.

 

[duke]

The biggest issue for me would be how would an emergency service (fire, ambulance) get to you in a timely manner.

 

[Trevanion]

Well it is Listed ! So maybe they will need skilled roofers.

You would be surprised at how poor the craftsmanship often is when it comes to those who work on listed buildings.

 

[AndyP]

Where will they put the skips when they start stripping the roof?

 

[Spectric]

Maybe those cleggs and flies were not that bad after all !

 

[RogerS]

The biggest issue for me would be how would an emergency service (fire, ambulance) get to you in a timely manner.

My thoughts entirely although the guys are on-site and I'm pretty confident that they'd drop everything to move the vehicle.

 

[RogerS]

Where will they put the skips when they start stripping the roof?

My thoughts entirely given that (a) there is no-one permanently onsite and (b) the communication from the 'manager' is useless. I can see the skip lorry reversing down the track and unloading the skip where that lorry is in the photo since communication is non-existent.

 

[Blackswanwood]

What a PITA!

Is there any signage that shows the respective role of those involved in doing the work Roger?

Assuming the person you reference is working for a firm of architects or building consultants I think my approach would be to deliver a letter to them politely pointing out your concerns, that verbal assurances already given by the person on site have so far not been met and asking for a timely response in writing as to how the matter will be addressed. I'd also copy the letter to everyone else involved including the owner.

 

[Cabinetman]

I would definitely check that a fire truck could actually get past the scaffolding.

What a PITA!

Is there any signage that shows the respective role of those involved in doing the work Roger?

Assuming the person you reference is working for a firm of architects or building consultants I think my approach would be to deliver a letter to them politely pointing out your concerns, that verbal assurances already given by the person on site have so far not been met and asking for a timely response in writing as to how the matter will be addressed. I'd also copy the letter to everyone else involved including the owner.

Also whilst they are at it they can produce a sign of the sort you see on roads warning of repairs coming soon, saying that your access must be kept clear at all times. It just isn’t acceptable what they’re doing.

 

[RogerS]

I would definitely check that a fire truck could actually get past the scaffolding.

..

LOL…it can’t even get down the track to us. We just have to pray they have long hoses. But actually that is a good point ..they could access from the field perhaps. I need to visit the fire station to advise them.

 

[RogerS]

What a PITA!

Is there any signage that shows the respective role of those involved in doing the work Roger?

Assuming the person you reference is working for a firm of architects or building consultants I think my approach would be to deliver a letter to them politely pointing out your concerns, that verbal assurances already given by the person on site have so far not been met and asking for a timely response in writing as to how the matter will be addressed. I'd also copy the letter to everyone else involved including the owner.

No signage. The ‘project manager’ lives in an adjacent building. We know her. Already in daily contact. Trouble is she is not experienced. She needs a proper project manager. I believe that there is a surveyor involved but not met him. Think ‘piss up’ and, well, I think she hasn’t got round to finding the brewery. Doh! Silly me, she doesn’t realise you need one.

She used to own the building many years ago and still has an ‘attachment’ to it. Still haven’t agreed with the insurance company. I told her to get a loss assessor but it fell on deaf ears.

This has all the hallmarks of a disaster in the making.

 

[AJB Temple]

The reason I mentioned planning is they (developers) may need to have agreed some form of method that does not obstruct access to other properties. Planning department can be a good way of applying pressure at almost no cost to you. At the very least complain to planning (nicely) that they appear to have allowed builders to block your property entirely.

You may have a claim against your seller as well if they did not disclose this to you - maybe it is why they sold up? If they failed to secure access during the planning process as an affected neighbour you may have a claim? (This is not advice - just layman comment as I no longer practice anything professionally )

I am wondering if a pleasant and practical compromise solution is to ask them to provide you with some parking throughout the works that does not involve this driveway.

 

[Spectric]

She used to own the building many years ago and still has an ‘attachment’ to it. Still haven’t agreed with the insurance company. I told her to get a loss assessor but it fell on deaf ears.

Does she understand what listed means ?

 

[RogerS]

I am wondering if a pleasant and practical compromise solution is to ask them to provide you with some parking throughout the works that does not involve this driveway.

The issue isn’t with us parking but that delivery people come, see it’s blocked and then go away

 

[akirk]

Can you simply put a big box this side of the scaffolding with a sign on it - deliveries for…

 

[RogerS]

Can you simply put a big box this side of the scaffolding with a sign on it - deliveries for…

Light fingers ?

 

[Duncan A]

Light fingers ?

Lockable, with an internal baffle to prevent retrieval through the posting slot.
With a notice politely requesting to phone when delivering.
All costs to be borne through the project manager's budget.
Or even make an arrangement to deliver to the project manager's home. This might have the added advantage of building a non-confrontational relationship with her before it all deteriorates too far.

 

[Spectric]

The issue isn’t with us parking but that delivery people come, see it’s blocked and then go away

I find that many couriers only attempt a second delivery and then it is collect from nearest depot or returned to sender and then the supplier wants postage paying for even if it was free first time so I can see your problem.

This is from our council



So they are looking at getting a ticket, bring this to their attention .

 

[Blackswanwood]

I find that many couriers only attempt a second delivery and then it is collect from nearest depot or returned to sender and then the supplier wants postage paying for even if it was free first time so I can see your problem.

This is from our council

View attachment 36279

So they are looking at getting a ticket, bring this to their attention .

I think you will find that is referring to vehicles on the public highway. As the problem here is on private land the Police are unable to issue a Penalty Charge Notice and will simply say it’s a civil matter between the landowner and the the person who has a right of access.