Ideal size of smoothing plane and ideal set of planes?

[Andy Kev.]

I'm just asking this out of interest to see what other folk think.

In general terms I don't have too much use for a purpose built smoothing plane, because I tend to go from sharply cambered Millers Falls No 5 (effectively a scrub plane) to a Record 5 1/2 for general flattening to a Veritas LAJ for final flattening and getting the surface spot on i.e. the LAJ usually also functions as a smoother.

However, there are occasions when the latter plane is too big and I end up reaching for my 4 1/2, something which I did yesterday. I realised that the 4 1/2 is actually quite a big plane and I wondered if a No 3 would make more sense because it represents more of a gap to the LAJ and 5 1/2 and it might be more suited to smaller, more fiddly jobs.

I can't imagine getting one because of the way I use the LAJ but I'm beginning to think that an ideal kit would be scrub, 5 1/2, LAJ, No 3 and a No 7 or 8 for when you need that capability.

Any thoughts?

 

[Mike G]

I reckon that with enough time and patience, you only need one plane. I coped with just a number 4 for probably 20 years. I think that if I had only one plane now it would probably be a number 6. However, it is way, way more convenient to have multiple planes.......and the combinations are then up to the way you work, and what you are making. I still use a number 4 as a smoother, and a 5 or 5-1/2 at the stage between scrub planing and smoothing. (Some people describe that as jack planing, and others see jack planes as being for really rough work, stripping paint, green timber, and so on.) For proper scrub planing I have a wonderful old woodie from AndyT, which now has a really cambered iron, but you can use a 5, 5-1/2 or 6 for the job too.

So, if I was talking to a beginner, I'd say get yourself a Bailey-pattern 4, a 5, and a 6 or 7 (you won't need both). Plus a block plane, of course. Have the 4 permanently set up with a tight mouth, or a closely set cap-iron. Only when you know how to use those properly will you properly know what additional kit you might benefit from.

 

[AJB Temple]

There are 2 widths of 41/2 in my arsenal. One is wider and heavier and is a better smoother. I have bigger planes too but have never felt the need for a No 3, though I was tempted by a LN Bronze one a couple of years back. It would have been a shelf ornament :lol:

If I need to go small then I reach for the Veritas block plane.

* was R Sen AL. This is not a rude word and should not be censored.

 

[AndyT]

I have some of those, or equivalents, so will try.

Some people would say I have too many planes, so how do I choose?

There's no hard rule, but it does depend on the size of the work and whether I am planing faces or edges.

For edges, I imagine that you have things pretty much covered. If the work is sticking up out of the vice you have plenty of room around it for any of those planes.

But with surfaces, a smaller plane will let you smooth a troublesome spot, or turn and work in the opposite direction.

So yes, a number 3 would be handy for that sort of thing. But as well as being shorter, it is narrower, so less good on bigger pieces.

So in my experience, it's the number 4 that is the best all rounder. Small enough for most work but not too small. Noticeably lighter than the 4 1/2.

And also the commonest plane by far, the easiest size to find a good old specimen.

So buy a 4 anyway and add a 3 if you find a nice one at the right price.

Hth.

PS. I think you also need a block plane for one handed use.

 

[Mike G]

.....* was R Sen AL. This is not a rude word......

As I understand it, it would be if you were a Spurs fan. I believe this concerns a winter game of 11 players a side, using an odd shaped ball.

.... and should not be censored.

I think that these censor programmes use bought-in lists, so of course there are the occasional oddities.

 

[Dr.Al]

.....* was R Sen AL. This is not a rude word......

As I understand it, it would be if you were a Spurs fan. I believe this concerns a winter game of 11 players a side, using an odd shaped ball.

.... and should not be censored.

I think that these censor programmes use bought-in lists, so of course there are the occasional oddities.

I think the problem here is what's known as the Scunthorpe Problem.

 

[Lons]

.....* was R Sen AL. This is not a rude word......

As I understand it, it would be if you were a Spurs fan. I believe this concerns a winter game of 11 players a side, using an odd shaped ball.

Similar shaped ball Mike only 3 times larger and full of air so it doesn't hurt much when you head it unlike the hard round object with a seam that you're used to. :lol:

 

[Cabinetman]

I lived near Scunthorpe— it fits!
For all my woodworking life the wood came from the very good planer then hand finished with a nr4 as time is important when trying to make a living, so I still only have a nr4 and haven’t missed the others, it’s surprising even when jointing long edges a short plane works, still cuts the high spots, so I am a bit bemused by it all really.
I did treat myself to a bronze LN, I found It wasn’t the one my hand reached for and it sits there all dusty, be selling it soon.

 

[johnward]

Like a lot of members I have too many planes but the three I use all the time are the Bailey No.4, No.5 and No.6, and a block plane, and not forgetting a 5 1/2 for shooting edges square.

 

[spb]

I'm also in the 'possibly too many planes' camp - 3, two 4s, 4 1/2, 5 1/2, 6, 7 - and with a couple of exceptions (one of the 4s is a dedicated scrub, the 4 1/2 is mostly kept for shooting board use with Dr. Al's excellent shooting handle semi-permanently attached) I pick a plane according to the job but also the size of the workpiece. The larger the workpiece, the larger the plane I'll pick up for general flattening and straightening. The #3 is generally only for spot clean-ups of specific areas, partly because it came to me with a fairly chunky back bevel that I've so far kept on it, so it's useful for difficult grain but more effort to use otherwise. That one aside, they all get regular use. The #6 was my most used until the 5 1/2 arrived, and is now probably the least used bench plane.

Obviously these days a lot of people will just use machinery for flattening and thicknessing, but since due to power supply issues my P/T is half an hour's drive away it only gets used for preparing the large pieces that are of pre-determined dimensions; I still need to do a fair amount of prep by hand.

 

[Dr.Al]

Too many planes? No, sorry, you've lost me there . Last time I counted I had 40 (of which 5 are home-made)

Of the metal bench plane variety, I've got a #3, two #4s, one #4½, two #5s, one #5½, one #6 and one #7 (all Stanleys except for an Axminster #5), plus a Quangsheng low-angle jack and (if it counts as a bench plane) a Quangsheng scraper plane. The low-angle jack spends most of its time on my shooting board; the (Axminster) 5 is my go-to plane for most things, followed by one of the Stanley #4s which is set to take a very fine cut and that I use to finish stuff off. The scraper plane is recent (thanks to Mike Jordan selling it) but it's getting used more and more as it's a dream on stubborn grained timber.

If I had to have just one bench plane, it'd be a toss-up between the Stanley #4 & the Axminster #5. I picked up the #3 for next to nothing in a junk shop; I've sharpened it but haven't felt the need to use it yet. I used to use the 5½ for shooting before I got the LA jack. Now I use it mostly for shooting long grain. I've been using the #7 for edge jointing a fair bit recently. I've only recently figured out some space in the garage for the #6 to live (it spent a long time on a bookshelf in the dining room!) and I've yet to use it.

For scrubbing a lot of thickness off, I prefer a wooden plane (or a bandsaw!) as it's less tiring to use.

 

[Lurker]

and I wondered if a No 3 would make more sense because

Any thoughts?

You most definitely need a number three………….and here’s one that’s exactly right for you

 

[AndyT]

£32.35 seems a fair price too!

 

[NickM]

One thing I’ve learnt at the Edward Barnsley workshop is that you don’t need a lot of specialist tools. They “famously” say that you only need a no. 7 and a block plane. That’s not an absolute rule, but they do emphasise that you don’t need a lot of different planes.

Having said that, I like tools (planes especially) so you should fill your boots!

 

[kirkpoore1]

One thing I’ve learnt at the Edward Barnsley workshop is that you don’t need a lot of specialist tools. They “famously” say that you only need a no. 7 and a block plane. That’s not an absolute rule, but they do emphasise that you don’t need a lot of different planes.

Having said that, I like tools (planes especially) so you should fill your boots!

For years, I used my #4 and #7 for 90% of planing. Now it's more like the #4, low angle jack, and a spokeshave, but then I'm not edge gluing panels much anymore.

I do have 30-odd planes though, not counting the wood ones sitting on shelves on my hallway bathroom walls.

Kirk

 

[Pete Maddex]

I use a 8 a 5 1\2 an a 60 1\2 for 90% of my plaining.

Pete

 

[Woodbloke]

One thing I’ve learnt at the Edward Barnsley workshop is that you don’t need a lot of specialist tools. They “famously” say that you only need a no. 7 and a block plane. That’s not an absolute rule, but they do emphasise that you don’t need a lot of different planes.

Having said that, I like tools (planes especially) so you should fill your boots!

I've heard that as well and it's a matter on record that the late Alan Peters (ex Barnsley bloke) used a No.7 or even a No.8 as a smoother. He's also reputed to have kept multiple honed blades close by so he didn't have to stop to re-hone the one in the plane. Personally I simply use a LV BU smoother and have done for years, but I have the LV LA Jack and Try which are my 'go to' planes. There is a Norris A1 panel plane under the bench that doesn't see any action and I'm awaiting delivery of the new 'Union' planes from the USA at Workshop Heaven. These apparently are very much in the LN mould but seriously well made and will retail for LN+ prices - Rob...who also likes collecting planes

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Ask a hundred people and get a hundred different opinions. I sold a Woden No.5, a Stanley No. 6c, a red Marples No.5½ and a red Marples No.7, as I'm running out of space - the only real reason for having them was to sharpen all of them at the same time then change planes rather than stopping to hone one. Apart from just liking them, that is. I use a Stanley No.4½ most, followed by a Record No.5½ and a Stanley No.8. I have a lovely little Stanley block plane that I think I've used about three times in thirty years.

 

[D_W]

The 4 dominates here. there are few pros to get an answer from about what they prefer for production work, and the only person I know of who does production hand work has a preference for 3s.

Before the 4 was common, coffin smoothers in the 2-2 1/8" range dominated (about the same proportions).

The answer as to why that is probably lies in what was most comfortable/productive with wood.

I've had and made a bunch of smoothers, but prefer a stanley 4 and don't consider anything else ever made to be any better (same could be said for the 3 or 4 1/2 if you prefer with weight and width for either).

In a duration of actually dimensioning wood, I get more done with a 4 than a 4 1/2 and don't have a 3 to compare the other direction (don't prefer anything more narrow than 4). That is counterintuitive - and I think the 4 1/2 looks more interesting just because it's bigger. it just doesn't translate to getting proportionally more work done, and I feel more than proportionally more tired with it an hour in when doing a combination of planing and sawing and then picking it up.

I find coffin smoothers pretty hard on the elbows if used heavily in hardwoods (that answers the question not yet asked about if lighter leads to less energy spent on the tool, what about lighter and slicker). Smoothers don't get that much time in the grand scheme either following a try plane or a good thickness planer.

 

[D_W]

One thing I’ve learnt at the Edward Barnsley workshop is that you don’t need a lot of specialist tools. They “famously” say that you only need a no. 7 and a block plane. That’s not an absolute rule, but they do emphasise that you don’t need a lot of different planes.

Having said that, I like tools (planes especially) so you should fill your boots!

I've heard that as well and it's a matter on record that the late Alan Peters (ex Barnsley bloke) used a No.7 or even a No.8 as a smoother. He's also reputed to have kept multiple honed blades close by so he didn't have to stop to re-hone the one in the plane. Personally I simply use a LV BU smoother and have done for years, but I have the LV LA Jack and Try which are my 'go to' planes. There is a Norris A1 panel plane under the bench that doesn't see any action and I'm awaiting delivery of the new 'Union' planes from the USA at Workshop Heaven. These apparently are very much in the LN mould but seriously well made and will retail for LN+ prices - Rob...who also likes collecting planes

also guilty of having too many planes, and still making more from time to time. But I think the idea of using only a 7 is practical if all bulk work is done by machines, or nearly all. When I started with hand tools, several people accosted me with the idea of needing more than one plane, either related to peters or not using a krenov smoother which is "better and more comfortable than commercial planes". there's nothing wrong with using power tools. but it's good advice if someone is going to do smoothing to probably do it with a smoother, and if someone is going to do work from rough to finish, looking back to discussion of what was used when that was done is a good idea.

(I started using only a 7 because someone told me that's what alan peters did, with the implication that he worked in a plastic bubble that only had rough timber in it and a #7 plane). Eventually, you end up smoothing something 10" long and find the 7 pretty awkward, and when you get steady with a smoother, too heavy.