• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Mike's ext'n & renovation (solar panels)

Mike have you tried jet washing the tanins off the bricks?

Mark

Careful. Kevin bl**dy McLoud seems to have started a wave of shot blasted oak framing - "to clean it up". That erodes the softer material between the 'rings' and leaves a finished surface not unlike corrugated cardboard. Looks ghastly inside, Gawd only knows what it makes external surfaces liable for in terms of weathering. "Jet washing" - as per above - is shot blasting slightly less powerful cousin and is murderous on pine. DAMHIKT.

I'm perfectly certain MikeG is well aware of this, given his profession, but I thought I would throw this in for wider consideration.
 
Mike G":12hsvovc said:
......And still on lead........anyone who has worked on a roof knows why a valley is a minimum of 125mm wide. For those of you who haven't, anyone care to hazard a guess?

The answer is that this is just a bit wider than a boot, and often a valley is the only means of access up a roof when you're working on it. You can't walk on slates, or even really kneel on them, so the valley has to be wide enough to walk up.
 
Mike G":1by41a10 said:
The answer is that this is just a bit wider than a boot, and often a valley is the only means of access up a roof when you're working on it. You can't walk on slates, or even really kneel on them, so the valley has to be wide enough to walk up.

Well that makes total sense and I'm annoyed I didn't pick it up!
 
If you recall, last time I had finished slating the roof. I decided to insulate it next, although were a number of other jobs I could have done first. Using 75mm Celotex, I cut the boards 5 to 10mm undersized, forced them against a rafter one side with wedges, and then foamed up the gap:

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That was a solid couple of days of work, believe it or not. Next, with the glazing on order and due to arrive soon, I ran up 60 or 70 metres of beading with which to hold it in place, and a cill bead of a slightly different profile:

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That was pretty dull stuff, with a few hours on the bandsaw and planer thicknesser, and some rounding over (and coving for a drip) on the router table, after those photos were taken. Not my sort of woodwork.......

Another rather unpleasant job was painting Black Jack (liquid damp product) on the inside of the plinth. Those of you who remember the details from a year ago (!) might recall that this outshot is built on a slab, and on one side is a couple of feet below ground level, so the damp-proofing/ tanking was an awkward detail and very important:

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The following photo shows the first fix wiring for the lights.....sort of. We are going to have one central light, but in case that isn't enough, I am have left cables in place which I can drill for and use for downlights. Their location is noted on the wall, because once buried by plasterboard I'm bound to forget where I put them:

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The two horizontal members at the top of the sloped ceiling are to take a short width of horizontal ceiling, as a sloped ceiling running directly up to a vertical wall is very hard to plaster, and looks a bit second-best, in my view.
 
Looks like you’ll be able to have your Christmas dinner in there at this rate Mike!
Never done it, but as per normal I would have tried to get the insulation tight to the joists— and struggled lol.
 
Friction fitting, as that's called, doesn't work, Ian. Firstly, rafters are seldom straight, and they are also seldom perfectly spaced top and bottom. The very best way of fitting insulation boards between rafters is using a product called "Gapotape", which sticks to the edge of the board and expands to fill the gap to the rafters. Its bonus over the method I used is that you can be certain it is the full depth of the insulation, whereas expanding foam can just be a bead at the surface.
 
Indeed. That's why I used wedges and foam. Doing it for myself I know that I have sprayed foam the full depth of the insulation......but I know that builders won't be doing that on a contract, so I specify Gapotape, knowing it's the only way of being certain the job is done correctly. Airtightness is a huge thing these days.
 
The double glazed units arrived the same day as the rather pricey expanding foam seal. I popped the latter in the fridge, because it expands slower when it is cold. It's in 8 metre rolls and I have 22 of them, which should give me a little bit to spare at the end of the job. It's amazing stuff, and is the only way I know of to successfully direct-glaze to green oak. Even normal glazing tape is too firm, and would allow the oak to break the glass as it moved.

I took no photos whilst doing the glazing, because you don't mess around when you're using the tape: it's constantly expanding. But here are a couple of detail photos from when I'd finished:

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One of the DGUs was produced oversized, so is being replaced by the supplier. There are also 2 openings which will have a frame and casement for ventilation, and there is a little woodwork to do on the triangular opening, and the two little windows either side of the door. Those are covered by temporary plastic:

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I have also done the first 25mm layer of insulation on the plinth:

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I have decided to line the inside of the openings with a slim beading because there are varied amounts of black showing from the DGUs. That is going to be a job of immense tediousness:

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Intrigued by the tape - I remember reading about it somewhere further back in this thread. When you say constantly expanding, is it activated when you remove the cover strip and expands to fill the space?
 
Its compressed on the roll, when you unwind it it is able to expand to fill the gap. Being cold slows the expansion so gives you time to get the backing tape off the sticky side and in place before it expands too much to get in neatly.
It comes in various sizes (expansion ranges) to expand and fill different sized gaps, and as the green oak moves will continue to expand or compress over time so the gap is always filled and water proof.

Mark
 
No, it's not that bad, Matt. When you keep it cool you've plenty of time to fit it all nicely and get your glass in place. The danger, though, is just putting the roll down and forgetting it whilst you fiddle with the glass, because the end of the roll will start expanding. I just push the roll up against something and put a bit of wood on it, to keep the end of the tape compressed. It really is marvellous stuff.
 
Next up was the floor. I built a little dwarf-call at the threshold, ran some cabling in ducts for the sockets, and then laid 50mm Celotex:

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Twenty square metres of screed was going to need 2-1/2 tons of sharp sand (plus 15 bags of cement):

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It took me 8 or 9 hours:

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I worked around the edges first, establishing the levels, then infilled back to the door. It will have stone over it in due course, so I didn't have to be too particular with the finish.....just get the damn thing level! It's admittedly not the most exciting set of photos I've ever posted, but this is a big step. A room feels quite different when it is brought up to its finished floor level from the slab level.

When it is dry enough to sustain foot traffic I'll plasterboard the ceiling and the house wall.
 
Thats a hard job. Definitely a 2 man job, one on the mixer and one on their knees. However I assume you did this on your own as you normally do?

Technical question. Is it normal to traditional screed straight on top of PIR? I have seen it done with liquid screed but thats much stronger.

Mark
 
Mike G":79z7r7ky said:
Indeed. That's why I used wedges and foam. Doing it for myself I know that I have sprayed foam the full depth of the insulation......but I know that builders won't be doing that on a contract, so I specify Gapotape, knowing it's the only way of being certain the job is done correctly. Airtightness is a huge thing these days.

I am doing some insulation of this nature Mike but as I have done the woodwork am mostly able to cut the insulation to fit. If there are any awkward parts or if I am using up odd sections of insulation I'll try to leave a gap and fill with foam as you do. I then go over the joint between the wood and insulation with silver tape. I have never come across anyone using Gapotape but it sounds interesting.

You mention air tightness in this thread and this is a very good point to make.

Good post
 
the bear":wzyha1ji said:
Thats a hard job. Definitely a 2 man job, one on the mixer and one on their knees. However I assume you did this on your own as you normally do?

Yes. It was a longish day, but I did it alone. I'd say this is about the biggest area someone working alone can take on, unless they are an experienced screeder/ plasterer.

Technical question. Is it normal to traditional screed straight on top of PIR? I have seen it done with liquid screed but thats much stronger.

Yep, its, fine, and done this way all the time. The screed is reinforced with glass fibre strands, and needs to be a minimum of 65mm thick. Mine was 80. If this was a job I was specifying, I would have put a polythene separation layer between the insulation and the screed, but the requirement has only changed in the last few years, and the old way (taped joints) worked perfectly well in my experience.....so that's what I did.
 
I am interested in the tape you are using for glazing Mike.

The two British Standard methods I know of for wooden frames are: tape and drained or solid fill.

From what I can remember B/S only recommend solid fill for site installed glazing.

It was about 15 years or more that I read the standards so things have probably changed.

You say the tape you use is the only one you have found to work with Green Oak.

The person I am working for uses silicone for glazing in green oak but as you may have found as the oak shrinks the silicone departs from the frame and so the seal can break down.

Any chance you can point me in the direction where we can obtain this tape from, I think it might be worth trying to persuade the chap I am working for to use it. Mark
 
I just noticed that Robin Clevett's latest video is about using this sort of expanding tape.

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Good progress Mike :eusa-clap:
If you pre-mix your fibres next time you get better distribution within the screed & don’t get big lumps of fibres on the surface.
 
Pre-mix? Do you mean mix them in with some sand?

I tease them in a few fibres at a time as the mixer is turning, but obviously now and then a small bundle escapes together, and can end up as balls on the surface. As for "next time".......that may well be the last floor I ever screed.
 
Mike G":3l5bw95v said:
Pre-mix? Do you mean mix them in with some sand?

Yeah exactly that Mike, I mix up a load of sand & fibres with the paddle mixer I use for mixing plaster before hand, only takes a few minutes but disperses the fibres so well.
 
Mike, It will be interesting to see how well the tape works with water tightness used in this situation, I have in the past had issues with water ingress along the bottom beads (after heavy driving rain) having just used either the butyl or the security type glazing tapes on the beads, without applying a cap seal of silicone or making it a drained and ventilated cavity around the glass perimeter.

I have only used the tape when fitting frames into building apertures
 
Well, it's kept our greenhouse dry for the last 3 or 4 years, glazed the same way. And there is a rebate behind the glazing, so two layers of tape (one each side of the DGU). I simply don't see how it can fail to work. Time will tell.
 
The experience I had was rain water had permeated past the tape somehow and flooded the rebate, and then it couldn't get out, I put it down to being the wind pressure, volume of rain and capillary action working together.
 
These tapes are only water-tight within a certain amount of compression. Outside that range, they become susceptible to water ingress. It's possible the experience you had was with tapes either too thin for their location, or simply not compressed enough during fitting......but of course, I'm only guessing at the cause in your case.
 
The tapes that are sold as "glazing tapes" are fairly rigid for want of a better expression, and not compressible, so you have to use a little persuasion when using them to make sure of good contact, I think I was just unfortunate in this case that the location and conditions overwhelmed it, anyway my lesson was learnt the hard way, so belt and braces for me now.
 
That's why glazing tapes are fine for windows, but hopeless for glazing to green oak.
 
^^ I agree: hopeless in green oak. I wish I had known about the expanding tape when I built our music room (100% green oak stand alone frame). Despite using correct methods and proper glazing tape, frame movement broke one glazing panel and I will have to rip it out and replace. This was with well seasoned "green" oak too, but it is easy to underestimate seasonal movement in oak framed structures. I don't think it ever settles totally either - there is always a bit of summer/winter flex. IME it can also take 2 or 3 years for splits to appear or suddenly widen in things like large oak posts.
 
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