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Router planes and depth stops

AndyT

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Andy
It's always interesting to come across some aspect of a familiar tool that you were not aware of.

I think my experience of the Stanley 71 router plane is fairly common - when I first got one, the method I worked out is what I expect most of us do. Set the "shoe" to level the gap and leave it there. Set the cutter a little below the sole of the plane. Take a cut, lower the depth of the cutter, repeat and continue until you get to the depth you marked out in advance. You soon get used to the rhythm of turning the adjuster a few degrees to lower the cutter by the thickness of the shavings you want to take. It felt a fiddly approach at first, but it's logical and it worked.

Later on, when I got a copy of "Planecraft", the 1950s book promoting the whole range of Record planes, I was reassured to see that the instructions in there were along the same lines and I had been using the tool as intended.

But the depth gauge never made much sense. It looks a bit odd and inconvenient, so people wonder why it was designed as it was. The book said it could be used in two ways. As a separate depth gauge like this:

IMG_9120.JPG

Or like this, assembled loose above the arch, set so that it just touches down onto the body as the required depth is reached:

IMG_9119.JPG

That's ok-ish, but it's not easy to see when the two bits of metal are touching and there's nothing to prevent you carrying on cutting deeper.

So I was intrigued to read in a recent issue of "Quercus" an article by Scott Wynn pointing out that the original Stanley instructions suggest a different approach altogether. (It's in issue 18, May/June 2023.)

Apparently, the cutter should be set at the full depth of the housing you are making and the tip of the gauge post just a little bit above the level of the cutting edge. That way, the post works as a crude sole or skate, preventing the cutter from diving into the cut. You set it up once, then work away, with no further adjustment needed. The original instructions suggest a difference of 1/16 of an inch, which seems rather a lot, so I tried a bit less. (You can read the originals here
https://archive.org/details/StanleyRout ... 1/mode/1up)

I thought I had better try this out. I sawed the sides of a housing on a bit of scrap softwood:

IMG_9106.JPG

Set the cutter to the full depth:

IMG_9107.JPG

Set the tip of the post a shaving away from the cutting edge:

IMG_9108.JPG

and set to work, with no preliminary chiselling:

IMG_9110.JPG

Well, it felt rather odd. It did work, sort of, but there were some issues. The tool feels out of control, as it's free to wobble about, without the usual reassuring contact between sole and wood.
Also, there's no depth limit at the far end of a cut, as the post is out in the air, doing nothing:

IMG_9112.JPG

IMG_9113.JPG

so if you think you can just mindlessly scrub back and forwards, think again. Or at least, work in from each side.

So where does that leave us? Maybe the post-controlled depth of cut would make sense on bigger work, such as staircase stringers, but it seemed crude to me. If you did most of the work with chisels, and only levelled the last little bit with the router, it would be much quicker and you wouldn't need the extra faff of setting the rod.

And as for Record's idea of the separate depth stop, a nail through a scrap of wood is better - it will scratch the high spots and show you where to cut next.

But is there a better way for the hand tool worker to cut housings? Yes there is, and it's the Dado or Trenching Plane. Here's a nice old example by Varvill of York, showing how it works. There's no need for any marking out - you just clamp or pin on a guide for the first few strokes. A pair of nickers sever the fibres and the cut goes down until the nice positive depth stop meets the surface. Very simple, very efficient. Even better on a wide board for deep shelves.

IMG_9115.JPG

IMG_9116.JPG

IMG_9117.JPG

IMG_9127.JPG

IMG_9128.JPG

IMG_9131.JPG

So what have I learned? That not every manufacturer's claim about a tool is always absolutely true for everyone. And that a wide selection of tools gives a wide choice of methods of reaching the required end. ;)
 
I've wondered what this bit was meant to do, seemed overly complex just to fill a gap in the sole. Doesn't seem terribly convincing in any of these uses. And why the turned down other end ? For the narrowest cutter ?

Interesting study though. And I enjoyed the ill-concealed tool flex ;)
 
It's really interesting to read about the different ways of using the Stanley depth stop. I only knew about the second method. I've tried it a few times and quickly concluded that it didn't work very well so I stopped using it.

At the risk of another "ill-concealed tool flex ;) ", I usually set the Stanley router plane's cutter to the final depth (ignoring the depth stop entirely. I then set the (excellent) depth stop on the Veritas router plane to be slightly above the final depth and work my way down to the stop with the Veritas one before switching to the Stanley for a final pass. If doing lots and lots of cuts, the Stanley cutter maintains a sharp and consistent edge as it's only doing the finishing pass, whereas the Veritas one can be resharpened if necessary without the loss of accuracy mattering very much.

Thinking about it now, it probably wouldn't be that hard to retrofit a Veritas-style depth stop onto the Stanley router plane :eusa-think:

I now also have tool envy as I'd never seen one of those trenching planes before :lol: I guess a combination plane (#45 or #55) could do the same thing, albeit with a lot more set-up time.
 
Tony, yes, the narrow end is for use if cutting a narrow housing, or more likely, a narrow groove.

(Incidentally, having just spent more time staring at this tool, I've realised that although it's no plough plane, it can do a bit more grooving than I thought. You can turn the cutter 90 degrees on its mount, so it cuts along the length of the tool. You can then fit a long straight fence using the two holes in the base. It's probably easier to find a suitable scrap for the job in hand, rather than trying to make it adjustable. I think that would work better than trying to use the titchy fence supplied. )

And Al, your comment prompted me to look again at the Veritas. The depth stop does look like a better design. If I hadn't already got the Stanley, I'd be tempted.

As for dado planes, snap 'em up when you can. At present, they've not been over promoted by any YouTube gurus or big social media influencers, and shouldn't be hard to get at a suitable price but now that the information is out on the WWW, who knows what will happen!? ;)
 
The titchy fence provided also looks like you can use it both ways round, as a flat or a pair of lobes for following a curved edge. I always unscrew it, think of somewhere safe to put it and the (hard to replace) screw while I use the tool without it, then put it back on when I'm done.
 
AndyT":1on5zlit said:
As for dado planes, snap 'em up when you can. At present, they've not been over promoted by any YouTube gurus or big social media influencers, and shouldn't be hard to get at a suitable price but now that the information is out on the WWW, who knows what will happen!? ;)

I'm off to the big city this evening for the first time in rather a lot of years, so I'm hoping to have some time tomorrow morning for a (potentially dangerous :D ) trip to Bristol Design. Who knows what I'll come away with :lol:
 
Very Interesting Andy. I can see your point with Dado planes especially one 3/4 wide, as you could make your stock to the size of your plane.
In relation to Router planes and Dados, I was taught to saw the sides as per your photo and then hog out the waste with a chisel leaving the material 1/32nd or so high. At that point you pick up your Router plane set to the final depth and then slowly plane down to your scribed line and repeat. The Router plane being a finishing operation not the main material removal tool.
I understood this method was regarded as much faster than planing all the waste out with the Router plane.
 
I agree, that's the most efficient method if you don't have a dado plane. I was intrigued by the implication that you could plane the whole depth just as quickly with the router, but I don't think you can.
 
PAC1":cqwmffbx said:
--- saw the sides ... hog out the waste with a chisel ... then slowly plane down to your scribed line and repeat. The Router plane being a finishing operation not the main material removal tool.
AndyT":cqwmffbx said:
I agree, that's the most efficient method if you don't have a dado plane.
Andy, do you think a dado plane is more efficient than the chisel approach? I use the chisel approach and have never been tempted to get a dado plane to improve my efficiency. With a chisel I take out a lot of material very quickly and I would be surprised if a dado plane taking relatively thin shavings on each pass is more efficient.
 
Just4fun":30phwkie said:
PAC1":30phwkie said:
--- saw the sides ... hog out the waste with a chisel ... then slowly plane down to your scribed line and repeat. The Router plane being a finishing operation not the main material removal tool.
AndyT":30phwkie said:
I agree, that's the most efficient method if you don't have a dado plane.
Andy, do you think a dado plane is more efficient than the chisel approach? I use the chisel approach and have never been tempted to get a dado plane to improve my efficiency. With a chisel I take out a lot of material very quickly and I would be surprised if a dado plane taking relatively thin shavings on each pass is more efficient.

I suspect you’re right but the benefit of using a plane, (not that I ever have) particularly on a wood like Pine is that a chisel can accidentally follow/allow the grain to tear down lower than you intended to go, and towards the end a plane will give a smoother finish more quickly I think.
 
Is a dado plane more efficient than chiselling? I guess, like so many things, it depends. If you're in the seventeenth or eighteenth century, making a bookcase with many parallel slots for the adjustable shelves*, then maybe yes. If you're a joiner making a single doorframe, almost certainly not.

The planes themselves seem relatively common, but maybe they survived because they were seldom used.

I can't recall reading any old instructional book that explicitly said you needed one for a particular job. Can anyone find one?

Yet they survived as a standard item into the twentieth century - they're in the 1959 Marples catalogue - but I don't think they could have been selling many by then.



*I'm thinking of this one in the V&A - look at image 5. https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O789 ... e-unknown/
 
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