Shaping advice sought

[Chris152]

I want to make several versions of a small (about 8" max measurement) wooden sculpture, based loosely on this kind of piece by Hepworth:

Mine will be simpler with just one hole going through, but with the same kind of transition from the outer profile going through the the form.
As I'm hoping to make several, I'm looking for the simplest way to do it. I've done a couple of rough experiments cutting the outer profile on the bandsaw, then a handsaw to create a rough outer shape followed by a sanding drum attachment on a drill press to continue shaping the overall form. That seems to work ok.
The inside I cut through with a forstner bit, but then had to shape the transition from the outer shape through the hole using a carving gouge (a traditional method I suppose), which took a long time and which I'm not very good at.

Can anyone suggest
1. A better tool (ie quicker, more efficient) for removing wood to create the 'internal' shapes;
2. Any other methods to efficiently create the kind of shapes I'm describing?

Thanks for any thoughts, C

ps For anyone who's interested, the picture's of Hand Sculpture (Turning Form), 1953. Sandalwood, 41.9cm.

 

[Doug]

If I was doing it by hand which I wouldn’t I’d be looking at Rasps such as the Microplane Chris

https://www.toolnut.co.uk/collections/rasps-microplane

 

[AndyP]

A Dremel perhaps?

 

[sunnybob]

To make a large hole, use a hole saw (lol)
https://www.amazon.com/5-13-Hole-Saw-Bi ... B01GI6CFMU

Drill down till it bottoms out, chop out the rubbish, and drill again. Any depth to the max reach of your drill is easy.
I would cut the insides first. With a flat piece of wood, drill the hole through, use the router table to round over the hole edges.
Do any hand work needed right up to sanding on the hole before cutting any of the outside shape.

 

[RogerS]

That is an inspiring piece of work, Chris.

Those small Microplanes are desperately weak and snap off with the slightest bit of pressure.

Get yourself some Saburrtooth burrs and a Dremel. Or if you're feeling flush, a Foredom (other makes are available).

And some Auriou rasps.

 

[Lurker]

I am sure Barbara didn’t use these new fangled tools.

 

[Trevanion]

I'd probably be hacking most of the profile away with a gouge and then attacking it with a rasp to its rough shape. A nice hand-cut rasp isn't cheap but they work very nicely compared to the cheaper machine-made versions.

 

[Doug]

Those small Microplanes are desperately weak and snap off with the slightest bit of pressure.

I’ve heard this said before that they snap at the handle, the bloke put a piece o wood in the blade near the handle to give support personally I’ve not had this problem & I’ve had a couple of them for quite a few years now.
I find they cut beautifully with none of the dust associated with powered options, just let the tool do the work & don’t apply too much pressure or buy the unhandled ones.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks for the replies!
Ok, so:
Shape the inside first, hole saw (i have some of these, they came in a cheap set but should be good enough) to create the initial hole; create internal contours with either a hand rasp or dremel (or Lidl imitation, which I have) and Saburrtooth burr - I quite fancy trying the burrs anyway so may get a little set.

I've been looking for years at belt sanders, maybe one of those with good extraction would work well on the convex exterior shapes? I was looking at a Triton 4" that can be secured on the bench. Or would a belt and bobbin sander unit be more useful for the job I'm looking at? I'd use either enough in future to make it worth buying.

 

[sunnybob]

A 4" bench mounted belt sander is not a lot of use for complicated curves. Its brill at flat and half round, and thats about it.

If you want to remove a lot of wood in a confined space, a power file with a 40 grit belt is great, but its almost like a mini chain saw as it gets through the wood very quickly so it should be put down way before you get to the final shape.
www.amazon.co.uk/BLACK-DECKER-KA900E-po ... 939&sr=8-5

A multi tool like worx or bosch with a triangular sanding pad is next,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-Advanced ... 128&sr=8-7

The wood slicing blades are also pretty good at planned wood removal.


followed by lots and lots of sandpaper :eusa-whistle: :eusa-whistle: :lol:

 

[sunnybob]

I missed out the bobbin sander. tricky to get used to. You get semi circular dents in your flat surfaces very quickly, but with practice its a very good machine that will handle almost any length of wood, but only if its less than 4" thick.
Not good if you have curves in different directions because of the height restriction :eusa-hand:

 

[RogerS]

.....
I've been looking for years at belt sanders,....

Provided you can get one that lets you mount it vertically (most do) then it would be ideal for the outside curves as all you are interested in is a sanding surface. You rotate the work to get your curves. Inside curves (ie concave) are best done using a bobbin sander but as far as I can see, all your outside curves are convex.

Axminster used to do a set of small drum sander bobbins that went into a power drill but I can't find them on their website at the moment. Very handy for concave surfaces.

Also take a look at the Flexcut carving chisels for use in a power carver. Superb to use.

What are you using for work-holding when you do the insides ?

 

[Chris152]

Thanks both.

Ok, I have a set of those small sanding bobbins from Axminster that I use on the drill press but didn't think to try them on the internal profile which they might work well for - failing that, I'll look into the power file. They look fun!
Searching the web for belt sanders, it looks like a bench-top one looks best and, being free-standing I can use it for the external profile outdoors to reduce dust issues. A cheaper alternative is to make a disk sander to mount on the lathe but I'm guessing dust extraction will be poor and it would have to be used indoors. Maybe I'll have a quick go tomorrow to see how it looks (the lathe stands just inside our garage door, so maybe not so bad) - it'd be cheap to try and worth a go before shelling out.

The trial ones I've made, I held in the vice while making the cuts.

I really appreciate your suggestions - a trip to Axminster and I reckon I'll be ready to do another trial. Once I have something that's not too embarrassing to show, I'll post a pic

 

[Woodster]

I made a couple of thumbhole stocks many years ago and I found the quickest and easiest way of shaping after making the hole was made was to use a round surform. I also used a half round version for some of the shaping. I actually removed the handle at the end for some of the work as it got in the way.

https://www.axminstertools.com/stanley- ... ile-900188

 

[sunnybob]

Disc cutter with a flap wheel works on wood as well as steel :shock: :lol:
But thats definitely an outdoor experience while wearing mask and headphones. :lol:

 

[Chris152]

Disc cutter with a flap wheel works on wood as well as steel :shock: :lol:
But thats definitely an outdoor experience while wearing mask and headphones. :lol:

I was stressed enough using the Saburrtooth burr that Roger recommended - I bought a green one, wild! Works a treat for stock removal on this scale.
I also bought a small carving tool from Flexcut for final texture, just the blade bit and I'll make a handle. I need some practice with that, I was going for the 'scallops' look but struggled with the grain. Maybe some youtube vids will help in that regard.
As for the external shape, as i approached the lathe with the idea of making a sanding disc, I decided it'd be even cheaper to just turn the basic form, and adjust later if necessary. So I did a basic egg shape and worked on that as a test. Once much of the wood's gone, it should be easy enough to alter the overall shape, tho I'm quite happy to work with symmetrical forms at first.
The outside's finished with beeswax applied with a mop, but that seems to dull as soon as I handle it - the chap in Axminster, who was incredibly helpful with the carving tool (allowed me to try lots of different gouges on some wood they had, and even try them on my egg) suggested microcystalline wax.
Anyway, the latest trial:

Elm, beeswax and water-based furniture paint.

 

[sunnybob]

Man, thats going to be some bead necklace :lol:

 

[Chris152]

It also works well as a ring, tho maybe for people with bigger hands than mine.

 

[AndyP]

Well I dunno what it is but the shape looks good. What is the point of the white paint on the inside? Rather distracting to me.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Andy. I can think of 3 reasons why I've used the white: I've been looking lots at Hepworth's work and it's a combination she used sometimes, which I really like; I like the combination of white and wood in general, just a personal taste thing, but I think it sets off the details/ tones of grain well; and finally, by lightly sanding that area, the higher parts of the beautiful scallops I've created ( :lol: ) are emphasised. That said (the last), gouging the wood creates a high polish/ burnish to the wood, so a burnished gouged inner area and a matt outside is something I'll try.

Next up I'll do some a bit larger, maybe with another hole joining. The more I fiddle with this piece, the more I like an overall symmetrical outer shape - I may even try my first sphere soon!

ps As for what it is, it's just a fiddle thing. I'm off to visit my ill mum today and will give it to her, something to hold, play with, a distraction. I think handmade wooden things can be good for that, a bit like a wooden worry stone.

 

[AndyT]

I don't know much about power tools for this sort of thing, but if I was trying to copy a Hepworth, I'd start by copying her methods. Carving by gouge and mallet allows the maximum amount of time for properly looking at the shape you've got to and what else needs to be cut away. I don't think it's all especially slow, either.

These photos are from a visit to the Hepworth Gallery in Wakefield a couple of years ago which displays her bench and tools alongside lots of her work. She doesn't seem to have had separate studios for wood and stone and her tools were few and basic. The bench vice is a Parkinson's Perfect.

 

[Chris152]

You're right, Andy - she used direct carving which allowed negotiation between her and the wood, a far more contemplative process than what I'm trying to do! I'm looking to make several little pieces that relate only vaguely to what she was making, but that take the bits I want and render them more quickly, pretty formulaic (once I've worked out a formula).

I've not been to the Wakefield gallery but it looks similar to some of the setup in St Ives, which I've visited several times. A wonderful little display/ exhibition if you ever get there. They're really nice pics, thanks for sharing them. One day I may get to see that gallery.

ps Thinking about techniques used, I wonder what techniques her assistants might have been using, and how much prep they did in advance of her hands taking over. I know little about her work in wood (or any medium for that matter), but it's not unusual for people to write assistants' efforts out of the equation to various degrees, emphasising the hand of the artist (clearly, that's where the reputation lies). In the 1960s, if you had to cut some of those large forms in wood, would you have started from scratch with a mallet and chisel? Just idle wondering from someone who doesn't know the answers...

 

[AndyP]

I’ve now googled and can see what you are trying to achieve with the white paint.
How fortunes can be made from shaped pieces of wood with a hole in them is beyond me though, even if they do look nice.

 

[AndyT]

You're right, Andy - she used direct carving which allowed negotiation between her and the wood, a far more contemplative process than what I'm trying to do! I'm looking to make several little pieces that relate only vaguely to what she was making, but that take the bits I want and render them more quickly, pretty formulaic (once I've worked out a formula).

I've not been to the Wakefield gallery but it looks similar to some of the setup in St Ives, which I've visited several times. A wonderful little display/ exhibition if you ever get there. They're really nice pics, thanks for sharing them. One day I may get to see that gallery.

ps Thinking about techniques used, I wonder what techniques her assistants might have been using, and how much prep they did in advance of her hands taking over. I know little about her work in wood (or any medium for that matter), but it's not unusual for people to write assistants' efforts out of the equation to various degrees, emphasising the hand of the artist (clearly, that's where the reputation lies). In the 1960s, if you had to cut some of those large forms in wood, would you have started from scratch with a mallet and chisel? Just idle wondering from someone who doesn't know the answers...

Good points there. Just lifting some of the big bits of stone would have needed some serious block and tackle, and I too wonder if some of the initial shaping would have been done at the quarry before delivery.

And similar with the bigger bits of wood - it would seem natural and efficient to get the chap with the chainsaw or axe to do some of the work, if only to see how good the wood was and to make it easier to shift.

 

[Chris152]

This piece is bigger and I found the Saburrtooth slow going, so decided to try this old chisel of dad's. It seems to work well. As I recall it's not a carving tool but a woodworking one, but can't remember what it's for - any thoughts? The stamp says 'Palm Tree'.

Have to say, apart from being quicker on this scale, I've really enjoyed doing that little bit with a chisel and find myself wanting to do more.

ps Andy - I was in touch with an old contact who'd done research on Hepworth, apparently the assistants did much of the shaping according to close instructions, and she'd finish off the final forms. This happened more and more as she became older. No info on what equipment was used tho, and no studies have been done on those initial stages of work.

 

[AndyT]

I'm pleased that you have found a gouge to experiment with. I think it will be the most enjoyable option and if you read the grain right you can take off big chunks in the early stages. Most trade chippies would have had a gouge or two in their kit. Even if they never did any curved work, gouges were useful.
For example, one way to scribe skirting is to first cut a mitre to get the line, then rather than use a coping saw on the moulding, use a gouge from the back to sneak up on the mitre line.

The palm tree trade mark belonged to Mawhood of Sheffield, 1863 - 1959.

And thanks for the extra info on Hepworth. It makes sense.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Andy. I think I may find myself on the lookout for a set of carving gouges soon enough. And you were right about the pace, I think - I can't find a simple formula for making more mechanically, and quicker tools really don't seem to allow for so much negotiation with the material. And they certainly don't feel as nice.

 

[Chris152]

Second trial, pretty similar to the first but this one's about 9" and in cherry.

Here's another question - does anyone have a method of clamping such a shape so it can be bandsawn safely? I know the easiest method would be to saw, then turn, but again it's hard to visualise the cut I want without first having turned the overall shape.

 

[Pete Maddex]

Second trial, pretty similar to the first but this one's about 9" and in cherry.

Here's another question - does anyone have a method of clamping such a shape so it can be bandsawn safely? I know the easiest method would be to saw, then turn, but again it's hard to visualise the cut I want without first having turned the overall shape.

You need a vatiation on the Ball-o-matic 2000.

Ball-o-matic 2000 by pete maddex, on Flickr

Pete

 

[Chris152]

That's great, thanks Pete. Does the hole serve a purpose - gripping the convex surface a little, or is it just a scrap with a hole? I guess I could line the contact points with that anti-slip rubber stuff to keep it even more secure.

 

[Pete Maddex]

That's great, thanks Pete. Does the hole serve a purpose - gripping the convex surface a little, or is it just a scrap with a hole? I guess I could line the contact points with that anti-slip rubber stuff to keep it even more secure.

Its the holes that provide the grip there is one in the bottom as well.
You can do the same thing in a vice with two bits of wood/ply/mdf with holes in.

Pete

 

[AndyP]

Pete,
Do you have a jig for cutting one if those bowls in half?

Last time I did it I used the lathe with a parting gauge and saw, IIRC it took ages.

 

[Pete Maddex]

Pete,
Do you have a jig for cutting one if those bowls in half?

Last time I did it I used the lathe with a parting gauge and saw, IIRC it took ages.

I think I held one in a clamp and fed it into the band saw once, not really recommended.
I can't think of a good way apart from making a ball shaped hollow and cutting half way on a band saw and then turning it round in the jig and cut the other side.

Pete

 

[kirkpoore1]

Chris, I'm finding this very interesting. The evolution from power tools to gouges should have hit me sooner. You can remove a lot of wood very quickly with a gouge and a mallet. They leave ridges, of course, but you're making them work for you nicely with that paint.

Kirk