• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Small workshop

Here's mine

2019-01-30_04-34-51 by my0771, on Flickr

It took me a little while to work out what you were telling me the cripples for the lintel form the sides of the frame and the sill has it own cripples.

I had read a build where someone had used 150mm x 50 to form the window frame which brought the window frame out level with the outer cladding, that is where I have gotten confused.

I do have a gap between the cripples and the next stud which by pure chance is 45 mm should I add a full length stud or packing. I also need a small stud in the centre of the window.
 
it is really cold out there my wood pile is completely frozen nothing a gentle tap from a large hammer cant sort. On the bright side there is no mud the ground is frozen solid :D
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Being 30 frozen miles north of this Grand Endeavour, I can assure you all, this is no understatement. I have a patch of ground in the shade of a south wall that has not thawed all day...it just happens to be the bit I was working on yesterday and wanted to finish levelling today, ho hum...I did manage to shift some spoil and stones by kicking them free and/or belting them with a four pound hammer. But, as it rapidly became clear, I was soon going to be modelling boots from the new "Punctured" range, so, I had to give up. Next, climbing a ladder became fun as it had been thoughtfully stored outside by my builder, and it actually had icicles on each and every rung. The roof had thawed, but this bloody thing was on the North side, in shade, where the air temperature resembled 'a Stepmother's Breath'. Sackafashinwashinhellsgates.
I have montaineered in some of the highest and coldest parts of the world, and know how to cope there, but today my digits on all four limbs were complaining mightily. Micheal, I take my hat off (very briefly!!) to you, woodmangling outside in our Northumbrian temperatures.

Sam, veteran of Cairn Gorm in blizzard conditions.
 
Do you get midges over there as well ? There's a little treat for you if you do. :twisted: Oh, and the flies. They've got insects and nasty-bitey critters up here that came out of Dr Phibes.
 
I have just been out to de ice my wife’s car and it is minus 6 out there I don’t mind working outside but not today.
So it will be a leather working day today see if I can add some money to the roof fund :)
 
MY63":xac2hyuw said:
I have just been out to de ice my wife’s car and it is minus 6 out there I don’t mind working outside but not today.
So it will be a leather working day today see if I can add some money to the roof fund :)
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Yup...same here. Just about to brave the hill to take LOML to the station for the Newcastle train. Last time it was this cold, when I tackled the hill, I had to change my trews at the bottom...the ABS was working flat-out.
Fortunately I don't think it will be as bad this year as the council did some serious ditchwork prior to the timber extraction and that has removed a lot of the water runoff that would freeze in a continuous sheet across the road.
 
Midges?? Roger, I am a Scottish summer veteran. Torridon in August. You had to climb above 2000ft to get peace. Great incentive to just sit on top of Liathach etc until the sun went down, it rained, or a wind came up. Stac Pollaidh, Suilven, Quinag, they were all the same.

Sam, bitten but not down.
 
Same here...surprised to wake up to snow as not forecast. Just hope Waitrose Home Delivery can make it up the hill. :lol:
 
RogerS":vbvwgrje said:
Same here...surprised to wake up to snow as not forecast. Just hope Waitrose Home Delivery can make it up the hill. :lol:
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It must be so frustrating for you, Michael, as you've been storming along. :eusa-clap:
 
RogerS":3a8nh890 said:
RogerS":3a8nh890 said:
Same here...surprised to wake up to snow as not forecast. Just hope Waitrose Home Delivery can make it up the hill. :lol:
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It must be so frustrating for you, Michael, as you've been storming along. :eusa-clap:
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To be honest Roger I am pleased to have a break more thinking time :) Even though I have been taking regular breaks it is still hard work.
I have been looking forward to doing this so would like to enjoy it if possible.
 
The snow has gone and the temperature is up a little so I am planning to start again tomorrow.
Strangely I have developed something like sunburn on my legs after working in the cold especially where my knee pad straps were touching. I am sure I will survive :) but no more working in the cold.
This is my original drawing which does not work.

2019-02-04_09-21-09 by my0771, on Flickr

I was wondering if it would be possible to use the lintels as the top part of the frame

2019-02-04_09-51-39 by my0771, on Flickr
 
Only if you have a plate over the top to tie everything together, or you put some galv steel banding over the sides at the corners. The roof will be trying very hard to push those side frames away from the end frame. I'd much prefer a plate over the lintel. You can actually put the lintel above the plate, if that helps.
 
Mike G":f2lffncx said:
Only if you have a plate over the top to tie everything together, or you put some galv steel banding over the sides at the corners. The roof will be trying very hard to push those side frames away from the end frame. I'd much prefer a plate over the lintel. You can actually put the lintel above the plate, if that helps.
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Thanks Mike I think I will put the lintels above the plates there are two this will give me the maximum height at the door opening.
How far can the roof extend over the doors.
 
If you want to project the roof significantly forward of the face, then you'll need to either extend the wall plates and support them with posts or brackets, or you'll need to build "ladders". If you only want to project by a couple of inches, then plant another piece of wood on the face of the gable.
 
Light rain and 8 degrees almost spring this afternoon so I did a little framing.
The back was easy a smaller version of the sides so I did that first.
Then I laid out the front outer frame. Looking at my pile of timber and the plan I had 2 x 3.6 and 4 x 3m 150mm x 45mm and it took me ages to work out why I had ordered 3.6 m 150mm x 45mm then the light bulb came on the 3.6m both had to be cut to 1.9m and 1.7m giving me a pair of each 1.7m for the lintels and 1.9m for the door frame.
Having learnt from the window frame the door frame will be the cripple for the lintels with a full length stud along side.

2019-02-05_06-48-12 by my0771, on Flickr

I think I would like to extend the roof over the doors maybe by 400mm to 600mm if that is fairly straight forward. I have ordered longer top plates to go with the longer ridge beam and also an extra pair of rafters should they be needed.
I think I understand the ladders would they be 600mm or more frequent made from 150mm x 45mm.
The extended top plates would the top of the frames need to be changed as well.
 
I wouldn't have said so mate, the weight should be enough. Just make sure your screws/nails are sunk in them. The metal isn't that thick is it?
 
I'd agree with Mark. Before I'd raise the frame, I'd lay a length of 4x2 along the plate and if any hangers or their screws/nails were lifting it up, I'd sort that first.

There may be just visible air gaps between them when the frame goes up, but when you are lining/sheathing the inside of the building, a bead of silicone along the join will close it off. For the most part wood frame will be resting on wood sole plate.
 
Hmmm. My details always say "housed out for straps and hangers" re the sole plate. They don't here, so my apologies. The idea is to do all the work on the top of the sole plate, not on the underside of the base-plate of the framing. From here, then, I would deal with the screws etc which stick up the most, and then go around the whole plate with a bead of Sikaflex or similar, inside and out, which will help take up any of the issues. What you don't want is a frame that rocks around on the plate, and you can't go bashing it too much, or the mortar course will break up.
 
Thanks Mark I thought as much my son was around to help this afternoon so starting at 1.30 pm we finished around 3 pm this is the result.

2019-02-06_03-37-10 by my0771, on Flickr

It is way bigger than I was expecting I am quite pleased though I need time to get used to how big it is.
 
Mike G":1sdgrizi said:
Hmmm. My details always say "housed out for straps and hangers" re the sole plate. They don't here, so my apologies. The idea is to do all the work on the top of the sole plate, not on the underside of the base-plate of the framing. From here, then, I would deal with the screws etc which stick up the most, and then go around the whole plate with a bead of Sikaflex or similar, inside and out, which will help take up any of the issues. What you don't want is a frame that rocks around on the plate, and you can't go bashing it too much, or the mortar course will break up.
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To be fair Mike I think you did mention it but I thought you had said not to chisel on the sole plate I checked and they were all well hammered down. When we put the first side up it did not move at all :D
Everything is solid, square and plumb we have made great progress.
 
Excellent - you must be really pleased! It may look big now, but once you move in I guarantee you will wish it was just a bit bigger, no matter what size it is ;)
 
I thought you were putting the doorway lintel above the plate?

Anyway, it looks great. Some people put the OSB on before standing everything up, as it squares the frames up perfectly. It does make things a bit heavy, though.
 
Mike G":281nr5ps said:
I thought you were putting the doorway lintel above the plate?

Anyway, it looks great. Some people put the OSB on before standing everything up, as it squares the frames up perfectly. It does make things a bit heavy, though.
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I have to be totally honest the window wall was at the limit of what we could lift between the two of us.
You are right about the door frame I did consider putting the lintels above the plate but I decided to go with the original plan. Which would have allowed the second of the upper plates to be the opposite of the bottom ones. I hoe this makes sense.

Thinking about extending the plates over the front they would be the same as the lower plates should they have some type of lap joint where they meet?
 
MY63":124wpk9d said:
.....Thinking about extending the plates over the front they would be the same as the lower plates should they have some type of lap joint where they meet?
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Ideally the plates over the short ends would lap over the plates over the long sides, tying everything together at the corners. This can't happen if you are going to extend the long plates and create an overhang, so instead, you'll need to strap those plates tightly to each other on the top corners, using the same stuff as you strapped your sole plates down with. If you put the banding towards the inside face it won't be in the way of the gable rafters.
 
Thanks everyone
I have been used to seeing it as a 2d thing now it is very much 3D it does feel huge.
Thanks Mike I take it the back is ok to overlap as you suggested with the short panel going edge to edge across the back and only the front requiring the additional ties. I am pleased that I did the lap joints at the bottom plate now.
I have not ordered the sheet materials yet as my garage is the only direct route to the garden which is currently blocked by a wall of insulation does it matter if insulation gets wet I have solid type and rolls of loft type.
 
Try to keep the loft type dry. The other stuff doesn't matter at all.

Just think of the roof as trying to push your long walls apart. You have to prevent it succeeding. Do what you need to do to make sure that you win, and the roof loses.
 
I think I need to order sheet materials for the floor in particular I can the stand a step ladder on the floor to reach the plates. I asked the timber guy about chipboard t and g flooring he said shuttering ply would be better. He also said neither would need expansion gaps. If I do use ply then can I have it cut into manageable strips. My plan is to glue and screw the floor panels together. I saw someone on UK workshop use a flooring with a non slip coating but don’t seem to be able to find it.that may save using rubber matting on top.
 
Careful. Your floor really needs tongue and groove connections between the sheets. If you don't have these, then you'll need to put blocking in at each join to support the edges. Shuttering ply, in my experience, is such unutterable crap that you'll never find a sheet that will lay flat, and your floor will turn into a piece of modern sculpture. I'd avoid it like the plague. 'twere it me I'd be using 22mm moisture resistant t&g chipboard flooring, or t&g ply flooring. The latter will be much more expensive than the former. Glue all joins, and no matter what the timber guy said, leave 10mm all around the perimeter of the floor, and cover that gap with a skirting.
 
Michael, I had two piles of hard insulation in my garden 5 feet high throughout my build covered with a cheap plastic tarp, weighted down with whatever was handy. It survived OK. The lofty stuff must stay dry, though.

I used OSB for the floor throughout the build and when I started fitting the 'shop out, I covered the OSB with a construction ply which has one side better quality than the other. I was able to paint the sheets of ply with 3 coats of Bedec flooring paint outside before I laid them. Much easier than painting in situ.

The ply does indent a little from the wheels of the heaviest machines, but I haven't slipped yet!

And one of the best bits of advice from one of the chaps here was to paint the flooring a light colour. I chose light blue. Even with my dodgy eyesight, I can see small nuts and washers I drop!
 
To be fair to the timber guy I did ask him about expansion gaps between the joints rather than around the edges. I am going to stick with the advice given as it has got me this far. I am waiting for a price for the coated caberboard which is light grey and non slip if it is anywhere near the £14 per sheet of the moisture resistant stuff I will order it tomorrow I might as well order the inside osb3 for the inside at the same time.
I take it the floor can go down before the inner sheeting?
 
They can go down in any order that suits.

Have you got a tarpaulin? Because if you put mineral wool insulation between the floor joists then you won't want too much rain getting onto the floor. It doesn't much matter if you are using Celotex-type insulation.
 
Thanks Mike I do have a good tarpaulin but for some reason I decided to store a ton of stone on top of it.
I will get another one :D and move the hard insulation outside to give me some room to sort the different sizes.
I don't know if you remember cut I was given a load of insulation from a local company most of it is foil backed and some has plasterboard on it.
I have some white expanded polystyrene which I originally bought for underneath the workshop. I now plan to use that for the first 5omm of the joists then the hard insulation for the top 100mm. I added little wooden tabs to the bottom of the joists to stop the insulation falling through.

I think I am going to ditch the idea of the roof overhang having a solid structure is way more important.
 
I'm not sure the plasterboard backed insulation will survive the damp outside, Michael. The foil backed and paper backed should.
 
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