Staircase upgrade - ...

[RogerS]

I like this staircase. Chief Designer does not and as been waiting for me to refurbish it for a longtime. I think she sees it as a milestone. I see it as a millstone :lol:



So first off, remove the metalwork



Job done. Finished, dear :eusa-whistle:

I tried to suggest that we put in glass panels but she wasn't having any of it. Ramped and wreathed is what she's after. So. ...

I've got the book





What could possibly go wrong ?

I gather Richard Burbidge is the Go-To Man for this sort of thing :eusa-whistle:

 

[AndyT]

Please sir, could you do it like this? You know you want to, really you do - you just need to find some decent quality oak...





... and I am sure Mike G will help with the fiddly bits!

 

[RogerS]

Good idea. I could fix up a socially-distanced camp bed in the orangerie

 

[AndyT]

:text-lol:

It would save you all that complicated handrail curve maths ...

Seriously though, if you are going to get your head and then your hands round making a proper curved handrail, I admire your attitude. I can see that the trade methods work and that many past craftsmen managed to understand them, but when I have tried reading books like that one my mind just goes a little bit numb and I notice a distraction that has to be dealt with instead.

 

[Trevanion]

I've always wanted to make a proper spiral staircase but one never comes my way, something to do with the area not being posh enough or something

I've also got DiCristina's book... yeah... :lol:

You could do worse than look at Wayne Mavin's Instagram page for inspiration, he does a lot of top-notch wreathing and curved work out in Australia.

https://www.instagram.com/wayne_mavin/

 

[Tiresias]

I've always wanted to make a proper spiral staircase but one never comes my way, something to do with the area not being posh enough or something

Don't talk nonsense . We live halfway up a hill in an unfrequented bit of the Scottish Borders and have two spiral stairs. 67 steps from top to bottom.

All stone though. No timber at all. Something to do with the neighbours' propensity for trying to burn one's house down and stealing one's cattle. Which I believe has been known to happen in Wales too. Possibly without the cattle bit.

 

[Mike G]

Please sir, could you do it like this?......

:lol: Lovely. But you'd need to find out Roger's age, and assess how many of his remaining years he'd like to spend on this staircase. And how long his wife is prepared to tolerate the "I'm getting there" refrain when she asks when it'll be finished.

 

[novocaine]

Clad it in plywood. If all the restoration shows ive ever watched are to have taught me anything its that when ever you remove clading from a stair case it reveals an amazing and quite frankly stunning work of art.

Not sure how long the cladding has to stay on for but id give it at least 10 years, which should give you enough time to finish your own projects.

 

[AndyP]

Or you could get Mike’s friend to turn some nice spindles and keep the existing handrail. Haven’t you got enough to do already?

 

[Lons]

Have you considered divorce Roger, it might be easier.

 

[RogerS]

LOL....I have a cunning plan

 

[Cabinetman]

Well all I can say Roger is that you’ve got bigger ....... than I have, I would no more plan on making a new curved handrail then fly in the air, I could maybe see me doing it as a 3d lamination. Hmm There was a sculpture I always wanted to do like that.

 

[Steve Maskery]

What a great shame! That original is beautiful.
S

 

[Cncpaul]

What a great shame! That original is beatiful.
S

I agree with Steve + removing the original will de-value the house considerably

 

[Trevanion]

What a great shame! That original is beatiful.
S

I agree with Steve + removing the original will de-value the house considerably

So long as Roger doesn't plan on selling the house the value of it is not particularly important, although I think there's really nothing special about that staircase at all, and it's more than likely not original to the house so any improvement over it is only really going to add value.

18 steps is a bit of an odd one though, are the risers as genuinely low as they look or is the floor-to-floor height deceptively high?

 

[RogerS]

What a great shame! That original is beatiful.
S

I agree with Steve + removing the original will de-value the house considerably

Not at all because it's not original and it doesn't fit in with the rest of the house design features.

 

[AndyT]

Staring at the pics a bit more, that pair of newel posts in the middle look clumsy. In my head, I can remove the one on the left, slide the taller one over into the space, and have both handrails meet on flats. Would that work? (Not with a lovely swooping curving handrail obviously, but if a lazier owner was looking for a quicker improvement.)

 

[Cncpaul]

The two newels at the 1/4 landing do look a bit of a dogs breakfast removing those will leave a gaping hole in the strings, treads and risers, when you reinstate the strings it would need to follow the curve of the handrail to look correct.

You could re-use the existing handrail and make matching wreaths.....

 

[Malc2098]

And a monkey tail at the bottom!

 

[RogerS]

What a great shame! That original is beatiful.
S

I agree with Steve + removing the original will de-value the house considerably

So long as Roger doesn't plan on selling the house the value of it is not particularly important, although I think there's really nothing special about that staircase at all, and it's more than likely not original to the house so any improvement over it is only really going to add value.

18 steps is a bit of an odd one though, are the risers as genuinely low as they look or is the floor-to-floor height deceptively high?

Spot on, Dan. As mentioned above, the staircase is not the original.

Sad story. Built in the mid-18th century, the house has an awful lot of history and one day I'll write a book ! But in the mid-1960's there was a debate as to where the dam in Northumberland would go. The house was bought by some London entrepreneurs along with a load of river frontage. Their idea being that, if their river got the nod then they'd be sitting on a tourist trap. It didn't get the nod and basically they walked away.

I have heard and read various stories as to how much work they did on the house in anticipation or how much was left to rot when they walked away from it. There is a lot of debate as to what actually happened to the house. (Note to self, must speak to any elderly locals as it would be of their time). The upshot is that all the period Georgian features were trashed and this was left in 1975-8 when it was renovated. What the then owners did was to try and make it look period but ended up with a pastiche. We decided that that was the wrong thing to do and so set about renovating the inside to be of a style that would appeal to more modern tastes while sitting inside a very elegant period external.



The risers are 6", treads 56" wide. Floor to ceiling 5.5 metres.

Those newel posts will be cut off.

 

[RogerS]

..... when you reinstate the strings it would need to follow the curve of the handrail to look correct.

........

...Never said it was going to be easy

 

[Cncpaul]

What a great shame! That original is beatiful.
S

I agree with Steve + removing the original will de-value the house considerably

So long as Roger doesn't plan on selling the house the value of it is not particularly important, although I think there's really nothing special about that staircase at all, and it's more than likely not original to the house so any improvement over it is only really going to add value.

18 steps is a bit of an odd one though, are the risers as genuinely low as they look or is the floor-to-floor height deceptively high?

That wasn’t my point, the intention was to dissuade Mrs S of the downside to the alteration and reduce Rogers very long To-Do list.


l do not think it was made for the house when it was rebuilt but something that was possible acquired from a reclamation yard

 

[RogerS]

.... when you reinstate the strings it would need to follow the curve of the handrail to look correct.........

That's exercising my mind as I'm keeping the strings and treads etc. The newel posts will go...apart from the bottom ..maybe the top..

 

[Mike G]

Then you won't have a sweeping curve, Roger. Your handrail has to follow the line of the strings.

 

[Mike G]

......The risers are 6", treads 56" wide. Floor to ceiling 5.5 metres......

It's the finished floor to finished floor measurement that counts with a stair.

 

[Cncpaul]

.... when you reinstate the strings it would need to follow the curve of the handrail to look correct.........

That's exercising my mind as I'm keeping the strings and treads etc. The newel posts will go...apart from the bottom ..maybe the top..

I don’t mean to replace them just sole and heal them when you remove the newels.

What you need is a few of these newels I made a few years back, add a bit of grandeur

 

[RogerS]

"sole and heal", Paul ?

I'm not familiar with that term. Google just wants to tell me about feet !

 

[Cncpaul]

"sole and heal", Paul ?

I'm not familiar with that term. Google just wants to tell me about feet !

That’s a trade term for a repair and not replacing something, when you remove the newels you will need to patch the strings, treads and risers.

 

[AndyP]

Is that B&W really your house Rog?

 

[RogerS]

"sole and heal", Paul ?

I'm not familiar with that term. Google just wants to tell me about feet !

That’s a trade term for a repair and not replacing something, when you remove the newels you will need to patch the strings, treads and risers.

Thanks, Paul. I'm not proposing to completely remove the newels as the staircase will fall down !

 

[RogerS]

Is that B&W really your house Rog?

Sure is, Andy. It's a bit draughty in winter

 

[AndyP]

How long ago was it taken? Hi

 

[RogerS]

How long ago was it taken? Hi

Sometime between 1965-ish and 1975-8 as far as I am aware.

 

[Cncpaul]

"sole and heal", Paul ?

I'm not familiar with that term. Google just wants to tell me about feet !

That’s a trade term for a repair and not replacing something, when you remove the newels you will need to patch the strings, treads and risers.

Thanks, Paul. I'm not proposing to completely remove the newels as the staircase will fall down !

It it completely open under the bottom flight ?

 

[Trevanion]

The risers are 6", treads 56" wide. Floor to ceiling 5.5 metres.

Jesus Christ, only a 6" rise? Usually, you'd aim for somewhere around 8". 56" is unusually wide too, if you were following the building regs you'd have to have a handrail on the wall.

I know you won't be keen but why not make a whole new stair to better proportions? I'd almost say it's an ideal candidate for something quite grandiose like a traditional curved string stair to suit the style of the house, something like this:



Make it a statement piece Roger

 

[RogerS]

The risers are 6", treads 56" wide. Floor to ceiling 5.5 metres.

Jesus Christ, only a 6" rise? Usually, you'd aim for somewhere around 8". 56" is unusually wide too, if you were following the building regs you'd have to have a handrail on the wall.

I know you won't be keen but why not make a whole new stair to better proportions? I'd almost say it's an ideal candidate for something quite grandiose like a traditional curved string stair to suit the style of the house, something like this:



Make it a statement piece Roger

Not a snowballs' !

Talking of building regs, one thing I'm getting conflicting information on is the height if the bannister...900mm. Is that to the underside of the bannister or the top ?

 

[Trevanion]

Not a snowballs' !

Talking of building regs, one thing I'm getting conflicting information on is the height if the bannister...900mm. Is that to the underside of the bannister or the top ?

Go on... You know you want to! :lol:

It's 900 - 1000mm from the pitch-line of the steps (Imagine measuring from the bottom edge of a level that's sitting flat across the tip of the nosings of the steps) to the top of the handrail if I remember correctly. I tend to measure 900mm from the top of the string to the top of the handrail using a bit of plywood with the angle of the stairs cut on one end to sit on the string properly and cut to 900mm in length, I think that works out to be something like 925mm from the pitch-line.

 

[Mike G]

Yes, it's 900 from the line of the top of the nosings to the top of the rail, measured vertically. Set it out at 910, just because you never know.

 

[RogerS]

Thanks Dan and Mike.

 

[PAC1]

If you do go for the continuous handrail then choose the simplest handrail pattern you can find with flowing lines rather than highly detailed because when you come to carve the transition it is a lot of work if you have very detailed handrails but if they are flowing as long as it feels right you can get away with a significant degree of variance. The feel test is your ultimate guide as it will be held by people going up and down the stairs.
Another way of making the transition is to laminate it. Make a strong curved form of the correct size of the transition space and a good bit taller than needed then draw on the line of the handrail and then glue and clamp on thin laminates to get to the width of the handrail. Then you only need to carve the profile curves.
I carved a volute with a rising transition on a complex handrail in solid oak it was a test.
Also check out zip bolt stair fixings they may have some useful solutions to joining the handrails.
If you want to cheat there is a company in Edinburgh that specialises in continuous handrails