Upgrading my wearing out shed - in stages on a budget

[shafiq]

May as well put down this little project here into words. Basically I'm planning to increase the footprint, but budget is limited. A few 'must haves' and a few 'could do with' items on the list. Which hopefully will make themselves apparent as I get along.

No specific plan in mind, just a loose one. The back (nieghbours wall) has to be (a must have) of brick. It'll keep all his 'fly tipping' from pushing on my fence constantly.


Currently I have a 2.4 × 2.4 (approx) footprint. Nighebours side fence which must be a brick wall is on the left. Everything will hopefully get done in stages and attached as/when needed and able to.

Eventual size will be a (less than) 15m² footprint and this weeks 'job' was to repair the roof and make the front face level.


Got myself a 3m pressure treated length for £8 and ripped it down. This has not only added an approximate canopy/shadow/footprint area as to how far forward to come. I added the angle to finally start making some of the roof level (the new bit).

Then the 600mm² concrete slabs had to come out and be made level. Removed lots of topsoil. Kept as much sharp sand from underneath as possible. Took the top soil to the tips (12 visits now per household per year for DIY waste) and levelled up.


Grabbed some geotextile membrane after cross referring one of Mike G pics/threads. Also, might aswell get the front footprint a bit wider already so dug out another 2 slabs worth.

Today was eid, so I did what I could. Had probably removed too much topsoil, so needed more sharp sand. Another trip to Wickes (local UK hardware store) and some more sharp sand purchased. Total cost now including the woven 2m x 25m geotextile, sharp sand and that initial treated 3m length (which was to get the ball rolling, so essentially a priceless purchase), £50.


Took a bit of a while, using the long level attached to a length of timber and lots of care. It wasn't until slab no 5 & 6 that I'd found/remembered my how-to (last slabs laid will over 20 years ago but they were even heavier at 900mm x 600mm).

I'd used my joist/workbench to compact the ground before the sand. Now I was using a second length slightly shorter to flatten a full 2 slabs worth before throwing down a slab. The underlay for knee protecting duties before eid-duties (going out) called.

 

[duke]

If you are building a new shed, for the time being empty the existing shed then with help from friends **** the shed to the right side against the fence. Load it up again then prep for the new shed. Then shift contents to the new shed and demolish the old one? Thats if there is enough room to do this.

 

[AndyT]

If you have been doing all that in this week's heat, you deserve a medal!

 

[shafiq]

If you are building a new shed, for the time being empty the existing shed then with help from friends **** the shed to the right side against the fence. Load it up again then prep for the new shed. Then shift contents to the new shed and demolish the old one? Thats if there is enough room to do this.

Plan (ever changing) continue working was to continue working around this one and eventually hoping that it will be incorporated/amalgamated into the new one. Problem with moving this existing one as it is towards that fence is that, its now a knackered fence. Seems rot got into some of the posts which are now a bit wobbly.

Hence a (nighebours side) wall for this shed would mean it creates the boundary, a fire proof shed wall (local regs). I'll also hopefully keep being able to max out the space/height by using up the back of the shed stepped downwards.

Sorry, too much information in the above paragraphs. I may have got tongue twisted and explained it wrong... Let me draw/add a pic

 

[Mike G]

Just be a little cautious building on a boundary, Shafiq. If the wall is on the boundary, the roof will potentially overhang onto your neighbours land. In a dispute, this could get you into trouble. Also, you aren't guaranteed access onto his land to a/ do the building work and b/ do any maintenance, unless you have a Party Wall Agreement in place. If you choose to go to the letter of the law and build the wall in from the boundary and have the edge of the roof or gutter on the boundary line, you risk ceding land to your neighbour. If in doubt, or in case of dispute, consult a Party Wall specialist. Don't forget, even if your neighbour is your best buddy, the next owner along (or his solicitor/ conveyancer) could cause problems in future.

 

[shafiq]

Not sure if this gives better representation.

1. Newly moved plum tree from below 'no3'. This is in its 3rd year and given fruits once. Trying not to kill it off so must be careful.

2. The work in progress with addition of a frontal area to the current shed. Also being extended to the right by 500 - 600mm (the width of a slab). This might keep the wife appeared with at least one of my bikes God Willing.

3. The back fence which also has a rotten post. This goes onto a path that we thought was the council owned (access to the houses from the back) but they deny it. So fortunate old me has the chance to try and upkeep it (I weed it once a year and gather all the litter up the end of the path every season, or as able).

So no3 could be either a timber framed wall on the boundary or brickwork. Brickwork probably cost restrictive. Its another drop there which leads me to no5.

4. The neighbours side fence which is wobbling. This may as well and has to be a brick wall to allow for local buildings regs so as to being fireproof. The roof (eventually) will be an apex type thing (leaning towards my side to allow water run off into my garden).

5. Another step down floor probably much the same as these slabs I'mdoing now. But will see when I gets there. This time backwards as the slope is substantial. So I may as well gain as much cubic m³ (sorry ft³ people) as possible.

Hope that makes some more sense. Can't move the shed to the right or it would cover up the gate and not have a platform. Moving to the left reduces my working area as its already a bit tight. Don't fancy working from neighbours garden too much (fridge, sideways and everything else).

 

[shafiq]

Just be a little cautious building on a boundary, Shafiq. If the wall is on the boundary, the roof will potentially overhang onto your neighbours land. In a dispute, this could get you into trouble. Also, you aren't guaranteed access onto his land to a/ do the building work and b/ do any maintenance, unless you have a Party Wall Agreement in place. If you choose to go to the letter of the law and build the wall in from the boundary and have the edge of the roof or gutter on the boundary line, you risk ceding land to your neighbour. If in doubt, or in case of dispute, consult a Party Wall specialist. Don't forget, even if your neighbour is your best buddy, the next owner along (or his solicitor/ conveyancer) could cause problems in future.

Mike, thats great input as always. I think I originally learnt about the roof/water/slope thing from one of your threads and its always racked my brain about how to close up a roof without going over boundary and slope towards my garden. Ceding out a bit of land sounds fantastic (exaggerated word, can't think of another) and could work for us.

To the brick wall I had hoped/thought about screwing one of my timber posts. So it would just get screwed to the outer of it.

 

[TrimTheKing]

You want to cede (give away) land to your neighbour...?

 

[shafiq]

You want to cede (give away) land to your neighbour...?

Not really. Just get through without too much hassle

 

[Lons]

Not really. Just get through without too much hassle

If you read Mike's post again carefully you'll understand that you risk giving land to your neighbour i.e. "ceding" you certainly wouldn't gain any.

As far as not being able to move the shed. The gate in the fence on to the lane could easily be repositioned if moving the shed was advantageous especially as you said it has a rotten post so could be done as part of the repairs. That's what I'd do to gain access for maintenance.

 

[RogerS]

Plus you're going to have to pay solicitors fees, Land Registry charges also possibly, and also your neighbours legal fees if they dig their heels in.

Bad idea IMO

 

[shafiq]

Plus you're going to have to pay solicitors fees, Land Registry charges also possibly, and also your neighbours legal fees if they dig their heels in.

Bad idea IMO

Yup, don't want none of this. Just want to make my shed bigger with minimal hassle etc.

 

[shafiq]

If you read Mike's post again carefully you'll understand that you risk giving land to your neighbour i.e. "ceding" you certainly wouldn't gain any.

As far as not being able to move the shed. The gate in the fence on to the lane could easily be repositioned if moving the shed was advantageous especially as you said it has a rotten post so could be done as part of the repairs. That's what I'd do to gain access for maintenance.

This sounds like really good information Lons. But, I don't understand what you mean

 

[Lons]

This sounds like really good information Lons. But, I don't understand what you mean

Which bit Shafiq?
The bit about building on the boundary/fence line has been covered, bad idea.

Moving the shed? I thought you said you couldn't because it would block the gate, I might have imagined that, but it's not too difficult to move the gate to one side if you really wanted to move the shed.

 

[shafiq]

Which bit Shafiq?
The bit about building on the boundary/fence line has been covered, bad idea.

Moving the shed? I thought you said you couldn't because it would block the gate, I might have imagined that, but it's not too difficult to move the gate to one side if you really wanted to move the shed.

Aha, yes I get you now. Moving the gate is well down the line 'eventually'. Building on the boundary line, plans re-magined (there will be alot of this replanning going on, thanks to this thread ) and I'll ensure there is a >1m gap which leaves just about enough for access and not needing to build in brick (I think).

That back path (where the gate is) is upkept by me and moreover after the council said its not their problem, so shouldn't be a problem to access the back of the shed from there. Anyway, in today's news...

Started emptying out the shed. But will leave valuable type stuff in there until I have gathered enough manpower for the lift. I'm guessing it can't be much more than about 100 - 150kg so I think 4 or 6 lads might well be plenty.

 

[RogerS]

.....until I have gathered enough manpower for the lift. I'm guessing it can't be much more than about 100 - 150kg so I think 4 or 6 lads might well be plenty.

Just take a long hard look at its condition first. Is it square and solid ? Are the doors and windows easy to open? If the answer is no then it has probably shifted out of square which may mean weakness that will fall aprt in the lift.

We inherited two sheds. Both are really ropey and I know if I tried to lif them, they would fall apart.

 

[shafiq]

Just take a long hard look at its condition first. Is it square and solid ? Are the doors and windows easy to open? If the answer is no then it has probably shifted out of square which may mean weakness that will fall aprt in the lift.

We inherited two sheds. Both are really ropey and I know if I tried to lif them, they would fall apart.

Aha. Good point there sir. But I suppose I'll need to get underneath anyway and I've strengthened (with racking from CSL type lengths) along the sides. Good wood all round inside so I'm hopeful it will pass the lift. Roof also made out of 22mm tongue and groove so I'm really really hopeful.

Have started clearing it out today - in the limited time between family/eid duties - so I guess I'll know soon enough. Plan is to reuse as much of the wood as poss.

 

[Lons]

It's a shame you aren't closer Shafiq. The easiest way to move a shed in my experience is to roll it on scaffold poles. I have a quantity of poles and have moved a couple in the past as well as some heavy items on pallets.
If you know anyone you could borrow from or half a dozen round fencepost would do it as easily.

 

[shafiq]

It's a shame you aren't closer Shafiq. The easiest way to move a shed in my experience is to roll it on scaffold poles. I have a quantity of poles and have moved a couple in the past as well as some heavy items on pallets.
If you know anyone you could borrow from or half a dozen round fencepost would do it as easily.

I actually have my mate Ali who rents out scaffold (don't ask, he's the accidental builder and I manage to sometimes confirm plans with him nicely). I should be able to get a good few lengths off of him. I will be rolling it uphill! Then somehow twisting it 90 degrees so the door is accessible.

Thanks again Lons.

 

[shafiq]

Anyway, not got much done and now at work for the night shifts. So... Got 2 or 3 more slabs down between the few hours I managed to get in the last couple days. Knee twitched a bit yesterday but so far so good.

Cleared out alot of the shed but then the big teddy I reside with, chucked out a dummy or 2 about a few chairs I'd put under the canopy out of the shed. So they had to go back in for now . So glad I opened this thread as plan as hopefully developing in my brain nicely.

Thanks all...

 

[shafiq]

Came back from work the same night as it got cancelled. Means we went out today aswell as me getting them last 2 slabs down. Just checked and they're the British Standard/Council types at 42kg a pop. So really pleased my back remains intact (and extremely thankful to God above).

Anyway, dry mix all the way of sharp sand (lots of it) and I learnt the professional way of 'just whack it with a mallet'. Still th
inking and rethinking plans around it to ensure I'm not here forever, but did speak to a grandpa (not mine but he has lots of older grandkids) and he said it'll not be hard arranging a small lifting crew!!

In pics and some of my previous handywork! I'll get some nice mortar in them gaps early tomorrow and its just rained heavy so might (or might not) have helped with soaking the slabs!

 

[duke]

Your shed looks to be in good condition, when you go to move it consider doing some diagonal bracing of the walls from the inside, which will lock everything in. I moved a 10' x 14' shed years ago using 4" abs pipe. Worked a charm. Repairs can be made to any damage ie, rot etc.
Have you considered using a polymer joint sand for the pavers instead of a cement based mortar for the paving stones.
Looking good.

 

[shafiq]

Just threw some info at AI (it guessed the old/new dimensions I suppose using my image of the off camber shed - it wasn't too far off!) telling it I didn't fancy moving it. Churned me out this plan/image.

A bit of discrepancies with its own drawings - seems to be 2 different roof options etc - but didn't do too bad. Also didn't hear me saying I'd be using bricks as the new perimeter walls/bases and not just as bearers. But like many kids it just ignored me and did its own thing.

 

[shafiq]

@duke I'd heard of the polymer type stuff but not looked into it. Do you reckon I ought to, considering I'm trying to continue lower budget and have my cement/building sand (and sharp) ready to go soon.

I guess I ought to now you've suggested it!! Never thought about diagonal (do you mean opposite/opposing corners! - that'll need some massive lengths) bracing but will look into it. Thanks again.

 

[duke]

If you have the jointing compound go for it. Yes diagonal bracing but not massive. It could be a 1" x 3" material to save on the cost. The more you do to stiffen the structure for moving the better. And the bracing material can be reused.

 

[duke]

The polymer sand is a good option. After filling the joints a light misting is all that is required. You just sweep in the compound then mist.
This would be what I would do. The product cost is reasonable and does a good job. It is what I always use for a jointing material for interlock paths and driveways. Obviously opinions will vary from country from country.

 

[duke]

Ok , what is the size of you present shed, and what is the size of the proposed shed? Ai ? Reality is important. Do really consider Mike G suggestions re set backs ect. as it is a very legal situation.

 

[duke]

Over here if the structure does not require a permit It must follow building code set backs and height restrictions as is required your way I think?

 

[shafiq]

Ok , what is the size of you present shed, and what). is the size of the proposed shed? Ai ? Reality is important. Do really consider Mike G suggestions re set backs ect. as it is a very legal situation.

I'm sticking with staying away from boundary wall Duke. According to the council that back path doesn't belong to them so I can see any problem working to that if need calls for it (where the tree and gate is).

 

[shafiq]

Over here if the structure does not require a permit It must follow building code set backs and height restrictions as is required your way I think?

Yup, sticking with all that Duke as I've read Mike's threads where he discusses at length and also checked building regs. I have 15m² I can work to. Current shed base is 2.4 x 1.8 (4.3m²). So however I design it (left gand side will have a 1m gap from the fence) I'll still be only working to a new footprint of 11m² max.

I like my garden and don't plan to plant shed everywhere

 

[shafiq]

https://www.screwfix.com/p/sika-fastfix-self-setting-paving-jointing-compound-deep-grey-14kg/388ky#product_additional_details_container

Something like this @duke

 

[Inspector]

I'm sticking with staying away from boundary wall Duke. According to the council that back path doesn't belong to them so I can see any problem working to that if need calls for it (where the tree and gate is).

Perhaps you should find out who actually does own the path. Half or all of it might actually belong to you and you should in theory be able to build right up to your back fence line since the path would be where the set backs are.

Pete

 

[shafiq]

Perhaps you should find out who actually does own the path. Half or all of it might actually belong to you and you should in theory be able to build right up to your back fence line since the path would be where the set backs are.

Pete

Its a dead end path Pete. Some of the houses have already blocked their bits off (and how it became a dead end) and when speaking to the council about it they said it wasn't theirs. So, since its been almost 12 years and no one else has claimed it I just assumed it was ours .

I'm the mug that maintains it anyway ('mug' being said in jest) and the only thing I haven't done is repaid the slabs. I'll be working - possibly - to it anyway. Will see how I get on and will give the council office an email or call..