Spindle moulder shaft - 11/4 to 30mm?

[Guineafowl21]

Still waiting on the saw centre to ring me back about the spare spindle.

I put a dial gauge on the SCM’s cutterblock yesterday - there is almost zero backlash on the rise/fall. Very impressive. I think I’ll stick with the machine for now, an keep an eye out for a Sedgwick with sliding table.

At some point, the cutterblock has clouted the alloy fence(s) and bent them. The engineering firms up here won’t want the job, so if anyone is willing to flycut them back to parallel for me, or knows of a good firm, I will happily pay and post.

 

[Trevanion]

Still waiting on the saw centre to ring me back about the spare spindle.

I find you have to chase people up these days and remind them, they're talking to you one minute and then totally forget about you the next, not down to any ill intention but simply just the pace of business these days.

At some point, the cutterblock has clouted the alloy fence(s) and bent them. The engineering firms up here won’t want the job, so if anyone is willing to flycut them back to parallel for me, or knows of a good firm, I will happily pay and post.

Ah yes, the good ol' forgetting to tighten the fences properly and feeding them into the cutter block with a power feed technique, I would say I know it well but it's never actually happened to me because I never approach the machines unfocused and have as Roy Sutton would say a "Cockpit Drill" in muscle memory.

Although that doesn't stop other people in the workshop from doing the deed...



Just to clarify, there shouldn't be sparks coming out of the spindle moulder at any time :lol:. This is the second time the fences have had it, the first time it got crashed was because the spindle moulder's fence depth setting is controlled via a computer panel and is programmable, and of course the person who was fiddling with it decided for some reason to send the fence back to absolute zero with a cutter block fitted into the machine and the fences clamped in place for the cut, fences moved backward into the stationary cutter block bending both fence plates and straining the motor and in a fit of panic the operator pressed the spindle start button instead of the emergency off. Fortunately, even with a 9HP motor it stalled and didn't spin up and eventually, the emergency off was pressed, the fences themselves were fine except for a couple of chunks of Tufnol being chipped out (you can see this on the right hand side of the photo) but there was a very minute bend in the aluminum casting just behind where the fence clamps to it, from the inside out as the clamp mechanism was effectively being levered out of the casting.

 

[Guineafowl21]

Picked up an SCM T50 minimax with sliding table, tilt and Samco power feed for £1800. Pics to follow :eusa-dance:

 

[Trevanion]

Picked up an SCM T50 minimax with sliding table, tilt and Samco power feed for £1800. Pics to follow :eusa-dance:

You won't be disappointed with that, those are a very nice bit of kit.

SCM has quite an interesting history, Samco is (or was, not sure if they're even still going) just another subsidiary of the SCM Group along with the likes of Minimax and Morbidelli but these were all competitors at one point with most of them working out of the same city, Rimini, which I suppose you could liken to England's Sheffield. SCM over time has pretty much swallowed up all the other woodworking machinery companies in Italy, much like T Robinson did here with Wadkin, Dominion, Cooksley, etc...

 

[Guineafowl21]

Here it is:


I fitted the Steff 34 power feed instead.

Needs some extra bits for tenoning:


There’s about 1/3 turn of backlash in the rise/fall. Very little between the gearbox at the top and the acme thread, but quite a lot where the thread meets the cast boss.


I could do with a decent supplier of SCM parts, if anyone knows of one. I still haven’t received the 30mm spindle for the T110 from The Saw Centre Glasgow (SCM dealer). Rang them today - “oh, it was sitting in the corner and wasn’t posted.” I can’t seem to coax them into doing anything.

 

[Trevanion]

Here it is:
[attachment=2]
There’s about 1/3 turn of backlash in the rise/fall. Very little between the gearbox at the top and the acme thread, but quite a lot where the thread meets the cast boss.

So you think the back-lash is actually in the casting itself where the Acme thread goes into it? I don't think there's much that can remedy that, although the weight of the column should take any backlash out so maybe try lubricating that very well so it isn't sticking?

I could do with a decent supplier of SCM parts, if anyone knows of one. I still haven’t received the 30mm spindle for the T110 from The Saw Centre Glasgow (SCM dealer). Rang them today - “oh, it was sitting in the corner and wasn’t posted.” I can’t seem to coax them into doing anything.

Try RJ Woodworking in St Helens, they've always been quite good and generally, they won't pull the wool over your eyes, if it's something you can fix with a 10 pence bolt rather than £50 part from SCM they will tell you that. One of the few companies left where customer satisfaction means something even if they don't actually make a sale, instead of trying to fleece their customers trying to sell a £5 V-Belt for £40... cough Advanced Machinery Services cough...

 

[Guineafowl21]

I was hoping that replacing the threaded bar would take out most of the play, but yes, while everything’s open I’ll clean up and lube.

The problem is, because the rise/fall lock acts only on the handwheel, the spindle has some up/down play in use. I wondered if this would affect accuracy.

Thanks, I’ll try RJ. TSS Glasgow have two very nice chaps called Brian, who are knowledgeable but promise many things on the phone, and then do precisely nothing. Not sure why :eusa-think:

 

[MJ80]

I had one of those with the extra roller tables, they are a great little machine.
Regarding the backlash when you set up the machine always drop the height then creep back up on it so the thread is under load. If you can get hold of one of those digital rulers in a stand it makes setup an absolute breeze and repeatable.

 

[clogs]

seeing this thread gets me going.....
all my machines are still in packing crates from the move....(18months).....
getting sick of waiting...prob with planning.....
a barn u say, what da ya want a barn for......I live in the boonies and barns n sheds everywhere....
and before u say it a bribe wont fix this prob......

I have a cunning plan, just need to convince her indoors to let me buy a JCB and get started.....hahaha....
men and their toys.....eh.....

Please tell me is there a way to explain for dummies to post photo's on this forum.....I run a Mac.....

Suns out and off to work in the garden.....

 

[AndyP]

Please tell me is there a way to explain for dummies to post photo's on this forum.....I run a Mac.....

At the top of each forum is an Announcements section. 3rd announcement down is the guide to uploading images to include in your posts. So far all of the dummies around here have got to grips with it but please shout if you get stuck.

The only problem you may encounter is unwanted rotation of the images. This is a fault of the forum software and the way it deals with EXIF data held by each image. A major forum upgrade to solve this problem is being worked on.

 

[Guineafowl21]

This 30mm spindle for the T110 finally arrived yesterday, after two months of wheedling:

New old stock! Exciting.

The nut is a two-part affair - the inner locking part bears on the cutterblock, and is free to rotate so can’t undo the nut under braking:

 

[9fingers]

Shame in a way as I was looking forward to watch John Mills aka Doubleboost youtube video machining the spindle. It's one of my regular sunday night viewing highlights together with his geordie expletives when "issues" arise in his workshop.

Bob

 

[Guineafowl21]

Shame in a way as I was looking forward to watch John Mills aka Doubleboost youtube video machining the spindle. It's one of my regular sunday night viewing highlights together with his geordie expletives when "issues" arise in his workshop.

Bob

Yes, that’s true. I actually spat my beer out when referred to the previous users of his Boxford school lathe, as ‘cloomsy little bastads’ :lol:

I did ask if he wanted/was willing to flycut the ally fences flat, but he didn’t reply. Probably gets loads of emails like that. Should I just send them on with an accompanying note?

I’m working my way through the Sunday night cap vids. Looking at small old lathes on ebay, but I mustn’t...

 

[9fingers]

Fly cutting ali fences is a horrid job with potential pooh traps. Has to be clamped down very carefully so as not to impose any stress and even then it can move after cutting due to the removed material.
Making steel replacements would be the way to go.

As some one who gets a few "could you just" jobs, I'd try and wriggle out of ali fences to be honest.

I'll be interested in where John ends up taking his channel.
Currently is Youtube earnings have allowed him to cut down to 4 days/week in his current job and freely admits that the idea behind the Patreon channel is to give up being a wage slave completely to concentrate on making videos.

Bob

 

[Trevanion]

This 30mm spindle for the T110 finally arrived yesterday, after two months of wheedling:

The nut is a two-part affair - the inner locking part bears on the cutterblock, and is free to rotate so can’t undo the nut under braking:

Wunderbar! That's the same shaft as I posted back on page 3, with a full range of spacers which is nice, they are surprisingly expensive to buy new. A very good investment I think, it should make the machine a much more desirable item and it should sell well, definitely more than your total cost thus far. That's, of course, if you're not so attached that you can't part with it now :lol:

I did ask if he wanted/was willing to flycut the ally fences flat, but he didn’t reply. Probably gets loads of emails like that. Should I just send them on with an accompanying note?

I asked an acquaintance of mine (the wonderful Tom French) whether he would be capable of fly cutting them for you but he reckons his little Deckel mill that he has is a bit on the small side for the fences otherwise he would be happy to help, he does have a larger mill but it isn't currently working, darn.

 

[Guineafowl21]

This 30mm spindle for the T110 finally arrived yesterday, after two months of wheedling:

The nut is a two-part affair - the inner locking part bears on the cutterblock, and is free to rotate so can’t undo the nut under braking:

Wunderbar! That's the same shaft as I posted back on page 3, with a full range of spacers which is nice, they are surprisingly expensive to buy new. A very good investment I think, it should make the machine a much more desirable item and it should sell well, definitely more than your total cost thus far. That's, of course, if you're not so attached that you can't part with it now :lol:

I did ask if he wanted/was willing to flycut the ally fences flat, but he didn’t reply. Probably gets loads of emails like that. Should I just send them on with an accompanying note?

I asked an acquaintance of mine (the wonderful Tom French) whether he would be capable of fly cutting them for you but he reckons his little Deckel mill that he has is a bit on the small side for the fences otherwise he would be happy to help, he does have a larger mill but it isn't currently working, darn.

Yes, I do like the 110 - unashamedly solid, while the T50 is lighter in construction but weighed down with concrete blocks.

Now I’m intrigued by what’s wrong with Tom’s larger mill - does he want help fixing it (or to sell it? )

 

[Guineafowl21]

The T110 is up for sale, as is the Charnwood (stop laughing at the back). The T50 is installed and ready to use - cleaning up the spindle carrier has improved the rise/fall markedly. Thanks for all the advice.

The missing machines have left a hole in my shop, which looks big enough for a metalworking lathe.

Any tips welcomed - one for making up bolts and other threaded items, bushings, handles would be nice. All the little things that are missing or worn on old woodworking stuff.

 

[Trevanion]

The T110 is up for sale, as is the Charnwood (stop laughing at the back).

Just had a look at it, I think that's a very realistic price considering how much a dealer would want for it and how much other SCM moulders have sold for recently. Definitely a much nicer machine now than when you first had it! Do you have the 1 1/4" spindle to go with it too?

The missing machines have left a hole in my shop, which looks big enough for a metalworking lathe.

Any tips welcomed - one for making up bolts and other threaded items, bushings, handles would be nice. All the little things that are missing or worn on old woodworking stuff.

Oh dear, a slippery slope! :lol:

You won't regret buying a metal lathe, it's not something you use everyday but when you do it is an absolute life-saver.

This is mine:



I've pinched that photo of the Lathes.co.uk site, but that machine in the picture is mine but before I bought it, it wasn't until after I bought it I realised it was on the site so the previous owner must've put some photos of it on there :lol:

It's a CVA MK-1A toolroom lathe from about 1963, I think. I paid £2600 for it a few years ago and it's definitely saved my and other people's skin numerous times over the years. It's got a single-phase motor in it so it's ideal for me, the last owner had it converted. Something like this doesn't really suit someone with a lack of space though as it's rather large, and logistics is an absolute nightmare unless you're suitably geared to moving heavy equipment as it's about a tonne and a half in weight.

I have no experience with the Myford ML7/Super7s but I know they are well-regarded as a decent little lathe and are a perfect match for a serious hobbyist as they're fairly compact and lightweight (at least compared to my CVA) and most are single-phase powered. The only downside is that you'll be paying pretty much as much for a nice Super7 as I paid for mine as they are highly sought after by hobbyists and command a premium because of the convenience of transport, power, etc... There are other machines worth considering though if you do have a good opportunity, Boxford lathes like John Doubleboost has are quite compact and rugged, and there are some lightweight Colchesters to be had although they will be very old. I would say it's best to keep an eye out and if something comes up that suits the bill for a good price, go for it, you won't regret it any which way. There are quite a few nice looking ones on eBay at the moment, but for a complete beginner to metal lathes it's hard to spot what's rubbish and what's not.

 

[Guineafowl21]

Yes, I have the 1 1/4” shaft but I was going to trade that back to reduce the price of the 30mm one, which was only about £150.

The Charnwood has sold already! £400. As I say, no regrets starting out with that because it had loads of functions and gave me a forgiving start to spindle moulding. Imagine making your first mistakes on that great big lump of a T50...

That CVA looks nice, and probably cheaper because it was outside the hobby market.

There’s a Boxford AUD on ebay, just like Doubleboost’s, a pretty green ML10 and a ‘tri-lever’ Boxford too. The latter caught my eye because it comes with loads of tooling.

 

[Trevanion]

That CVA looks nice, and probably cheaper because it was outside the hobby market.

There’s a Boxford AUD on ebay, just like Doubleboost’s, a pretty green ML10 and a ‘tri-lever’ Boxford too. The latter caught my eye because it comes with loads of tooling.

The thing with the CVA is that when it came out it was worth more than a couple of houses at the time, A Myford Super7 is worth more now than they were to buy new, there’s no comparing the two :lol:

Tooling is always a big bonus, but always keep an eye on what the toolpost is, try to pick one up that’s a quick change variety rather than the old four sided ones with the screws clamping down from the top, quick change is very easy to adjust whilst with the former you need to shun the tooling and it’s a right pain to use.

 

[Guineafowl21]

Ok - eye currently out for a Boxford, AUD or similar. If it’s good enough for DB John, it’s probably good enough for me.

Quick change toolpost looks nice to use, but presumably I can buy one to fit, if not included, for not too much money?

I found these books in a charity shop about ten years ago:




It has a good section on lathes, and is useful for the following:

Seller: “It comes with this accessory”.
Me: “Excellent. What is it?”.

 

[Guineafowl21]

Boxford VSL? Seems like a happy medium between the smaller Myfords and the CVA.

 

[Trevanion]

Boxford VSL? Seems like a happy medium between the smaller Myfords and the CVA.

I think practically all the Boxfords are very well regarded so I don't think you can go too far wrong provided it isn't too badly worn on the slideways and the headstock bearings are good. If you're not after micrometer accuracy, bed wear isn't too critical.

A bad habit for people moving a lathe is to lift the machine by slinging a strap under its chuck, if you ever see anyone doing this walk away from the machine as this will knacker the bearings. All these machines have proper methods of lifting and they should be outlined in the manual, my lathe for example has two holes in the cast-iron cabinet if you look at the photo and you shove two steel bars through these holes out the other side of the lathe and you attach your lifting slings to those and you have no risk of damaging the machine by lifting it from somewhere it shouldn't be lifted.

 

[Guineafowl21]

Glad you approve, since I seem to have bought this one:
https://www.gumtree.com/p/lathes/boxfor ... 1408486842

Seems in good nick, and has a quick change toolpost and lots of tooling. See? I do listen...

 

[Trevanion]

Seems in good nick, and has a quick change toolpost and lots of tooling. See? I do listen...

Looks good from the photos and it has just about everything you would want with it too which is a big bonus, 3-jaw and 4-jaw chucks are quite common to have to accompany a machine but it's not often one has a dog drive plate, a faceplate, and a collet chuck. The dog drive plate and faceplate aren't as useful as the other three for most things but there are certain jobs that they come into their own for and it's better to have them than not. The Burnerd Collet chuck and collets themselves aren't a cheap item to buy secondhand, you'll pay the better part of £300 for a set like that, they're not as accurate (negligible) as 5C collets but they've got more range so you don't need such a large selection of collets, the Burnerd collets have 1/8" of close-down whilst the 5C collets have only 1mm of close-down so you need to keep about 3X the amount of collets with the 5C system.

The Dickson toolpost is nice too, very quick and easy to change tools, and once they're set up once you don't have to think about it again, and you've got plenty of holders there! One odd thing though is that it seems to come with a boring head for a milling machine, photographed next to the Jacobs chuck, it's not something you'd really use on a lathe.

In all, it seems to be a good buy, a very comprehensive set up and you won't really be wanting for anything more I don't think! Unless you start dreaming of a Dean Smith & Grace of course :lol:

 

[Guineafowl21]

Here we are:


I’ve made a few things - brass bush for the spindle moulder, turned down a spare bolt to size, cut a BSW thread, and made a thick washer for it, and a prototype quick change handle for the toolpost:


Yes, the toolpost handle is a bit rough. The only carbide insert I had was, I think, for aluminium and the handle was made from a drop link from someone’s van, so possibly quite hard steel.

I’m sure I’ve drilled brass before, but what a bu gger it is! There are several busted drill bits in the bin.

 

[Trevanion]

I’m sure I’ve drilled brass before, but what a bu gger it is! There are several busted drill bits in the bin.

Brass is grabby, you need to alter the cutting geometry of your drill bit so that it has a neutral rake to its cutting edge.

This video by Clickspring will show it easier than I can explain it:

[youtubessl]pAngKHIZgyA[/youtubessl]

 

[Guineafowl21]

^^^ thanks, that did the trick nicely. Then I tried to cut threads in it and broke off the tap

 

[Trevanion]

^^^ thanks, that did the trick nicely. Then I tried to cut threads in it and broke off the tap

Were you trying to tap under power or by hand?

If you haven't already, it's worth investing in good quality taps and dies. I buy the Presto HSS ones and they were a revelation compared to the cheap Chinese carp I had from Aldi (which in their defence, were probably designed more for re-dressing threads rather than cutting completely new ones although they did supply the correct tap size drill bits in the set). They aren't cheap but if you ever compare a cheap Chinese tap to a Presto tap you'll come to appreciate the huge difference, Presto taps bite instantaneously whilst Chinese ones are a struggle to start and provided you look after them they will last a lifetime of light use (they are a consumable item after all, they won't last forever in hard steel) whilst cheaper ones only last a couple of holes.

I'd personally recommend just picking them up as you need them rather than having a full arsenal and only ever using two or three sizes which would likely be M6, M8 and M10.

 

[Guineafowl21]

Continuing the meandering thread, what is the meaning of HW and HM as applied to cutting tools? I can’t find a definition, other than something to do with the type of carbide.

 

[Trevanion]

Continuing the meandering thread, what is the meaning of HW and HM as applied to cutting tools? I can’t find a definition, other than something to do with the type of carbide.

I may be wrong but I believe both are used simply to denote that the tooling is carbide tipped/solid carbide, you'll find the same when you're looking at woodworking tooling also.

 

[AJB Temple]

That is very interesting advice re taps. Mine wear out ever so fast but I expect they are Chinese as I just get sets off Amazon. Will buy some decent ones in the sizes I use. Just pretty ruined a set last week making new pulley mounting brackets and riser fittings for my hard used triple mower deck.

 

[Trevanion]

That is very interesting advice re taps. Mine wear out ever so fast but I expect they are Chinese as I just get sets off Amazon. Will buy some decent ones in the sizes I use. Just pretty ruined a set last week making new pulley mounting brackets and riser fittings for my hard used triple mower deck.

I get my Presto ones from RDGtools, not sure whether they're the cheapest but their site is easy to use:

https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Presto-Metric-Taps---Dies-1.html

A good cutting lubricant will also extend their life and make them easier to use, I particularly Rocol's RTD cutting compound, you can just dunk the taps or the part to be threaded with the dies into the compound, a tin will last a lifetime.

https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/lubricants-and-chemicals/cutting-compounds/rtd%c2%ae-drill-tapping-compound-500gm

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks. Will order on Monday. M10 tap is completely knackered and it is not just my ineptness.

My brother has lots of Britool taps and dies that he will never use but a 300mile round trip to get them.

 

[Guineafowl21]

Thanks, yes I have seen it in reference to woodworking tools.

I did buy some Presto taps, in sets of three - much better. I also found WD40 was quite a good tapping lubricant for brass. Made some lovely brass handles for my beer taps: