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I need advice on a plough plane (availability/possibility of extra irons)

M

MikeAnblips

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Michele Ancis
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Hi!

We were discussing this plough plane thing a few days back, and I could have found something reasonable (?) for a starter:

www.kleinanzeigen.de

Heimwerken. Heimwerkerbedarf gebraucht kaufen | kleinanzeigen.de

Kleinanzeigen: Heimwerken. Heimwerkerbedarf gebraucht kaufen - Jetzt in Bischofsheim finden oder inserieren! - kleinanzeigen.de
www.kleinanzeigen.de www.kleinanzeigen.de

I'd like to hear your thoughts on that, in case, and I'm wondering whehter it would be possible to add other irons, and how complicated that would be.
The plane comes with 1cm wide iron and it has none extra.

Thanks!
Michele
 
Well, the iron in it looks the same as an English one and it's fitted the same way, with a groove on the back fitting onto a tapered front of the skate... I don't know for sure if the English standard applied in Germany but it seems more likely that it did, rather than there being two slightly different standards.

I guess it really comes down to how easy they are to find where you do your shopping!

The plane itself looks complete and in good condition, but it's not set up right in the pictures, which might mean the seller doesn't use it.
 
What Andy has said is all good advice.

A few comments from someone who's made their own irons.

It's not especially difficult, particularly for a plane without a blade adjustment mechanism (a #43 or any wedged plane). For this one, you'll probably want to shape the blade blank a bit (you'll notice it's wider where the wedge is compared to where the cutting tip is). I would do that with a milling machine as I have one, but you can do it with a hacksaw and some decent hand files. The only other tools you'll need are a pair of pliers and a blowtorch; for small blades like these the sort of thing a plumber uses for copper pipe soldering would be fine. A magnet is handy, preferably one you can fix to something (e.g. with a screw through the middle).

The process of making a blade for that plane would be something like this:
  1. Buy some gauge plate / O1 tool steel / high carbon steel in the same thickness and width as the existing blade.
  2. Cut to length.
  3. Hacksaw/file down the end near the cutting tip to the width you're targeting.
  4. File a rough bevel on the end (to save work on the stones later).
  5. File some relief on the sides (so it's very slightly narrower on the side that gets to the wood last than on the side where the bevel meets the flat face). You only need to do this near the tip and, if you prefer, you can do it after hardening using sharpening stones.
  6. Hold it in the pliers and heat it up (focusing on the tip) until the tip is glowing a bright red (generally called "cherry red" in descriptions I've read).
  7. Check it's hot enough by offering it up to the magnet. If it's hot enough, it won't stick to the magnet.
  8. Dunk in some vegetable oil and move it around slowly until it's cool.
  9. Clean up all the scale that will have built up on the surface using sandpaper or a sharpening stone). There are ways to make this step easier, but I'm going for the minimum tool option!
  10. Heat it up again with the blowtorch, this time focusing the heat away from the tip. Watch the colours move along the tool. You'll see a straw coloured stripe followed by a blue stripe. When the straw coloured stripe gets to the tip, dunk it in the oil again. If the blue coloured stripe gets to the tip, go back to step 6.
  11. Get the sharpening stones out and make it sharp.
  12. Try it out!
 
It's also worth having a think about how you'll hold your boxes. One of the things I like about my #43 is that it's small and doesn't protrude much over the box side. That makes it easy to support the box sides being grooved with stops or, if required, clamps. As plough planes get bigger, they work better on big things but become a bit cumbersome for small boxes.
 
Wow thank you @Dr.Al for the details 🤩

Is this a blowtorch?
1760947442115.jpeg

It was my father's, I took it together with a few wrenches when he passed - it would be fantastic to find a use for it ❤️

I have a subscription to what's called a "makers' space" here (well... It's a 50 min drive...) - basically it's a shared workshop with various tools and machines. There's also a metalworking workshop and it has a milling machine (actually, more than one), so I'm thinking I could be safely equipped for that job, if "more needs" arose.

Thanks again, I'll start looking around for "gauge plate/steel" (new word!)
 
Yes, that looks like a blowtorch and should do the job just fine.

Gauge plate is an English/British term for (harden-able) tool steel that's typically provided accurately sized (by grinding to size). In the US, I think it's just called O1 tool steel (the "O" meaning hardened by quenching in oil). It's also known as "ground flat stock". Lots of names for what is basically the same thing.

For comparison, if you want to make hard things from round steel, then generally the easiest unhardened option is called "silver steel" in the UK or "drill rod" in the US. Also referred to as W1 tool steel as it's generally hardened by quenching in water rather than oil, although either W1 or O1 can be quenched in either water or oil - the results might not be quite as good with the "wrong" liquid, but it'll work.

I'd really recommend getting yourself a copy of Tubal Cain's book on hardening. It goes into far more detail than you need but covers the basics well (and has a nice colour chart showing what colours correspond to different temperatures).
 
Thanks @Dr.Al - as it happened one year back with all the new woodworking terminology (and is of course still going on...) - I'll now spend some time creating a map between the languages I need to juggle, i.e. Italian, German, and two versions of English :ROFLMAO: - so that I can be more or less certain I'm buying or dealing with the right thing :)
 
MikeAnblips said:
Wow thank you @Dr.Al for the details 🤩

Is this a blowtorch?
View attachment 36298

It was my father's, I took it together with a few wrenches when he passed - it would be fantastic to find a use for it ❤️

I have a subscription to what's called a "makers' space" here (well... It's a 50 min drive...) - basically it's a shared workshop with various tools and machines. There's also a metalworking workshop and it has a milling machine (actually, more than one), so I'm thinking I could be safely equipped for that job, if "more needs" arose.

Thanks again, I'll start looking around for "gauge plate/steel" (new word!)
Click to expand...
I use a MAPP torch I think you might have problems with that gas torch getting to the right temperature.
Some fire bricks will help to concentrate the heat. I made a crook knife blade with a MAPP torch and fire bricks and it heated the blade very quickly and evenly.
The easiest way to judge the temperature is with a magnet on a stick it will stop sticking to the blade when it’s hot enough, then polish the blade and temper it by slowly heating it until it turns to a straw colour and quench.

Pete
 
I don't want to put you off having fun making your own plane irons, but original Sheffield made irons from the 19th and 20th centuries are pretty easy to find in the UK, if you are able to shop over here.
 
Pete Maddex said:
I use a MAPP torch I think you might have problems with that gas torch getting to the right temperature.
Click to expand...
That's true for bigger blades, but for a plough plane blade a propane torch will be fine.

Pete Maddex said:
Some fire bricks will help to concentrate the heat. I made a crook knife blade with a MAPP torch and fire bricks and it heated the blade very quickly and evenly.
Click to expand...
Insulating fire bricks help a lot. Refractory fire bricks hinder a lot (as they soak up an awful lot of the heat). The latter is good if you want the heat to hang around for ages (e.g. to keep your radiators warm), but not good if you want intense heat for a short amount of time. Unfortunately, the term "fire bricks" can mean either.

For a plough plane blade, a small plumbers blowtorch pointed at the tip will get it up to cherry red very quickly, regardless of whether any fire bricks are involved.
 
AndyT said:
I don't want to put you off having fun making your own plane irons, but original Sheffield made irons from the 19th and 20th centuries are pretty easy to find in the UK, if you are able to shop over here.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to gauge (!) what my best option would be - the problem with shopping in the UK for a mainlander, is that it bears heavy shipping and sometimes some other fantasy tariff costs which often spoil the price. I don't know why they inflate the shipping so much - for instance on Ebay. Royal mail shipping prices aren't that crazy after all...

Would you give me a pointer for those plough plane irons sold in the UK? I'd have a "ricochet" option, to have it sent to friends in the Island, and then on to me through them. But it's a bit of a hassle so it has to make sense...

Anyhow, thanks for the tip!
 
Actually, for a first plough, especially if you are mainly thinking of small scale work, I suggest you look for a smaller metal plough. For example, 20th century Stanley models are not seen as desirable to collectors and can be reasonable value.

For example, this one from a reputable dealer who says he would deliver at minimum cost.

www.oldhandtools.co.uk

STANLEY 13 030 Plough Plane

A very tidy STANLEY 13-030 three blade plough plane.Dismantled, cleaned, checked, oiled and reassembled.Marked 'STANLEY 13 - 030 MADE IN ENGLAND REG DES PENDING' on the fence.With three STANLEY cutters in sizes 1/8, 3/16 and 1/4 inch, all appear unused with their original factory grind and...
www.oldhandtools.co.uk www.oldhandtools.co.uk

Another advantage is that the cutters are even easier to make than the tapered ones for a wooden plough.
 
That's a lovely tip Andy!

Shipping is back to normal, too!

1761035381424.png
I'll give it a serious thought!
As for the work scale - I don't plan to stay on boxes forever, they're in my opinion a necessary starting point because they force precision while giving you possibility to practice on a small scale. I think some time in the future I'll get to a slightly bigger size, something including drawers maybe? But if I see this correctly, even in that case the grooves and the lengths do not "explode", so this kind of plane should be a good fit, right?
 
That plane that Andy found looks like a great option. The cutters are nice and simple like my Rapier #43 - just a plain shank with a bevel on the end. Much easier than the shaped ones for wooden plough planes or the grooved/notched ones for the #44/#45/#50/#55.

Go for it!

It comes with cutters up to 1/4" (just over 6 mm), so it's obviously intended to be used for grooves up to at least that size. I'd be surprised if it didn't cope okay with cutters a bit bigger too.

If you have a bench grinder and want a really easy option for making blades for simple plane like this, you can buy 3 mm thick HSS flat bar (I got mine on ebay) in various widths. I bought some in 3 mm, 4 mm, 5 mm and 6 mm widths. All you then need to do is cut to length (with angle grinder, dremel or, at a push, bench grinder) and then grind a bevel on the end. No blowtorch required.

If you don't have a bench grinder or can't find HSS flat bar of suitable lengths, then the process is the same as I described earlier (with gauge plate and a blow torch).
 
I hope you like it.

I do find it interesting that there have been so many different approaches to making plough planes across times and places.

You may find yourself wondering what makes each design more or less desirable than the next.

Should the fence be fixed to the arms, which then run through the body (the English or Scottish approach) or should the arms be fixed onto the body, like the one in your original post, the "continental" way?

How should the arms be fixed - with wedges, or with screws, or by nuts on threaded arms?

Should there be a curvy handle? If so, what shape and material?

Should the plane also be able to cut rebates, beads or mouldings?

You can extend the list yourself.

Some people find that they soon have quite a "selection" of different types. They may try to defend themselves as doing serious research, or just trying to have at least one tool ready for each size of groove. ;)

Nothing wrong with that!
 
AndyT said:
Some people find that they soon have quite a "selection" of different types. They may try to defend themselves as doing serious research, or just trying to have at least one tool ready for each size of groove. ;)

Nothing wrong with that!
Click to expand...
Thanks!

Every background I could see, of an accomplished handtool woodworker, was filled with tools, and planes of every shape and make. That, with the exception of Richard Maguire, I believe , where the background is just a brickwall 🥳

So I imagine that in time, one tends to pile up tools, looking for specificity I suppose, ease, and so on.

Plus, of course, there's undoubtable pleasure linked to owing objects of strange shapes - we all know that.

Me myself, being just a beginner, with very little space, and probably because of my nature/attitude, I'm biased towards the opposite end - I'd like to really learn to exploit a minimal set of tools and learn the ropes, which really is a handful of skills that are easily listed down, but not so easily mastered, before moving on to consider more specialized tools.

But of course what's a minimal set? A few weeks back, I thought a router plane would have been enough to cut grooves and recesses, now I think a plough plane is essential for that :ROFLMAO:

I guess it's all an evolution.
 
Pete Maddex said:
I have a Record a Rapier and a Vostok 043.
Having more than one means if you are replicating a moulding you don’t need to keep resetting the plane.
Click to expand...
Now you're just showing off 😆

(says the man who mentioned on a related thread that I have a #43, a #45, a #50, a #55 and four home-made plough planes 😜)
 
MikeAnblips said:
Hi!

We were discussing this plough plane thing a few days back, and I could have found something reasonable (?) for a starter:

www.kleinanzeigen.de

Heimwerken. Heimwerkerbedarf gebraucht kaufen | kleinanzeigen.de

Kleinanzeigen: Heimwerken. Heimwerkerbedarf gebraucht kaufen - Jetzt in Bischofsheim finden oder inserieren! - kleinanzeigen.de
www.kleinanzeigen.de www.kleinanzeigen.de

I'd like to hear your thoughts on that, in case, and I'm wondering whehter it would be possible to add other irons, and how complicated that would be.
The plane comes with 1cm wide iron and it has none extra.

Thanks!
Michele
Click to expand...

Hi Michele

I recommended to you on the other forum that you find a Record #043. I have a few plough planes, and some better than the #043, but it is so versatile and pretty inexpensive for a tool which is a pleasure to use.

I do not like dedicated plough planes for box grooves as I like to both position the groove and also choose the groove width.

A wider blade can be used for rebates as well - wider than your standard plough blades.

I made blades for mine from 3mm M2 steel (HSS). This was purchased cheaply, to width, on eBay. Use an angle grinder to cut to length and grind a 30 degree bevel. HSS will not be affected by heat, and it takes and hold a great edge.





With a 20 degree skew blade and an angled wooden sub-fence, you can plane sliding dovetails.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Thanks @derekcohen - Although I didn't link it to you specifically, I remember the discussion/advice for a Record #043 - As this thead testifies, I was looking for a less expensive solution/alternative for the European market, and Andy' suggestion just landed in a sweet spot, same price as a wooden counterpart, and less than half of any R043 I could lay my eyes upon.

As others have hinted, this is likely to be a stepstone in a path disseminated with 'tool choices' :geek:

I haven't visited any friends in the UK since I've started my journey, but it's clear that for these objects that's the place to be - I've got a couple of options so... We'll see in 2026 :)

Thanks for the advice, the sliding dovetails arrangement is just sweet!
 
... And this is the unexpected sting that I somehow manage to always forget :-(
(TBH, I was pretty sure that fees wouldn't apply for very low imports like this one)

1761310240616.jpeg

But, on the bright side, I can collect very soon :)

EDIT : dammit!!

1761312563438.jpeg

Abholbereit --> Earliest pickup time
Nächster Werktag --> next working day --> Monday 😱 :mad:
(I'm required elsewhere over the weekend, anyhow...)
 
Last edited:
Today is gonna be the day 🎶 🥳

... I was wondering, is it crazy to think, as a newbie, to be able to make irons for mouldings? I mean, accepting the normal rate of frustration and half-backed results, of course. Or is it something that really needs advanced skills?

The reason I am asking is because I like how mouldings look, for instance around the edges of tables, in panel and frame structures, but shopping around for such specific objects kind of puts me off. If it were reasonable, putting in the necessary effort, to make a few planes with "interesting radiuses", that would be a nice project for... In a while (I think I still need to work in the basics for this second year, but in perspective...).

Note: maybe my wording, or even my underlying concept, isn't correct. What I'm thinking of, is basic convex and concave blade/sole shapes, not the complicated ones. Just a few radii, and then compose the moulding out of those basic shapes. Hope this makes sense?
 
A basic plough like this one wasn't designed for mouldings and trying to use it for that would be an exercise in frustration. Manufacturers such as Stanley and Record made a range of planes with a wider range of functions, starting with a simple plough and adding on the ability to cut rebates, beads and other mouldings. The more complicated planes were sold as "combination planes" .

The sales pitch was that one plane would do the work of many. The downside was the time needed to swap irons and make adjustments to depth of cut, fence setting etc.

Over here, "old fashioned" wooden moulding planes are easy to find for very little money. In my experience they do a better job than a combination plane. The basic "hollows and rounds" are a good place to start.
 
Just to clarify: I wasn't thinking of exploiting the plough to make mouldings.
The train of thought was more: irons for plough plane --> irons with basic hollows and rounds? --> make some basic plane for mouldings, in a year or so.

The problem with the market over the Channel is the overhead in costs, as my recent experience testifies. I still have to collect, and I'm eager to learn what constitutes a +40% fee... But I guess I already know the answer: that's VAT (20%) plus postal fees. I had a similar disheartening experience as I was in Italy this summer and ordered - again - a small kit from UA. The postal fees are very brutal in these "low price" purchases :-/

The market here in mainland is not so rich, but I'll keep an eye, maybe looking more persistently will bear some good fruit :)

Thank you!
 
Making a moulding plane blade isn't too horrendous a challenge I think - lots of pre-hardening file work to shape the blade prior to heat treatment and obviously making it match a shape on the base of the wooden plane you've just made.

I'm pretty sure (but my memory is vague) someone on here made a blade for an old moulding plane very recently and posted the process.
 
Wow that's a beautiful work in that thread 🤩 - thanks for the link!

I was thinking of something more basic in terms of shape, but the process seems what you also outlined earlier on.
In the meantime, I did a bit of research and while "gauge plate" seems to have no correspondence, "tool steel" is translated in German with "Werkzeugstahl" (pretty direct, although it comes in 20190 flavours...), and "acciaio rapido" (quick steel?) in Italian.
So, I've got my basics covered! :ROFLMAO:

Now onto reading this:
2025-10-27 13_29_43-Clipboard.png
 
MikeAnblips said:
Wow that's a beautiful work in that thread 🤩 - thanks for the link!

I was thinking of something more basic in terms of shape, but the process seems what you also outlined earlier on.
In the meantime, I did a bit of research and while "gauge plate" seems to have no correspondence, "tool steel" is translated in German with "Werkzeugstahl" (pretty direct, although it comes in 20190 flavours...), and "acciaio rapido" (quick steel?) in Italian.
So, I've got my basics covered! :ROFLMAO:

Now onto reading this:
View attachment 36419
Click to expand...
That really is an excellent book (based on my much older edition) but bear in mind that it can be a bit overwhelming in the level of detail. As I think I said in this or another thread (and I'm sure others have mentioned), it can be as simple as "heat it up until it doesn't stick to a magnet, quench in vegetable oil, chuck it in the kitchen oven at 200°C for a bit".

The book goes into way more detail of why it all is the way it is and the temperature colour chart and tempering temperature table are invaluable for a bit more precision. There is also a lot about making a furnace and doing more exotic materials but a lot of that need never worry you! If any of it sounds complicated, it's probably not that important for what you're likely to do in the near future.

I got a bit carried away a year or so ago and made a heat treatment oven but I did that mainly because I thought it would be an interesting project (which it was), not because I really needed one for anything that I normally do.

Oh, Clickspring has some good videos on heat treatment - he introduced me to the idea of covering the part in boric acid powder mixed with methylated spirits to prevent scale build-up. I used to do this the Clickspring way, with some iron wire wrapped around the part to stop the boric acid coming off, but with the heat treatment oven I can put it in a tray, which is a bit easier. Photos in this post. I'm sure I've got some photos of heat treating with wire wrapped around a part and a blowtorch for heating, but I can't find them right now.
 
Sad story confirmed: Customs decided that they'd use a "statistical value" for the package: instead of the 40€ (35£), they used 53€ :oops:o_O
So instead of 8€, I paid ~11€. Then, postal service decided to charge 6€, for whatever reason.

Result: I'm never going to order anything beyond the walls of the city again :ROFLMAO: (seriously though, this is disheartening).

Back on topic, I suppose I'll have to learn how to use the plane. Is it assembled correctly?

WhatsApp Image 2025-10-27 at 6.20.10 PM (1).jpegWhatsApp Image 2025-10-27 at 6.20.10 PM.jpeg

Imagining it is, I guess I'll need to practice a bit, because the grooves do not come out very precise...
WhatsApp Image 2025-10-27 at 6.20.10 PM (2).jpeg
 

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I should have mentioned this before, but now that you are clearly getting interested in the many different designs, do have a look at the Cornish Workshop website. This was created years ago by a much respected enthusiast, known to the online tool world as Old Tool Alf. She's to blame/thank for kindling enthusiasm for these things decades ago. She's a member on here, but a bit quiet. Take a bow, @Alf.

Her website is not online any more, but the Wayback Machine has preserved it.
Start here for her notes on many fine old tools:

Combination Planes @ Cornish Workshop

Woodworking tools, articles and projects from a hand tool perspective
web.archive.org web.archive.org
 
Lovely tip Andy, thank you!
(<heads over to ryanair.co.uk>)
 
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