Mike's greenhouse and potting shed (finished)

[Mike G]

Looking good Mike. Your Douglas Fir looks pretty decent quality.

Thanks Jim, and yes, I'm really pleased with it. In fact, after making my rooflight with it in the autumn I am quite a fan of DF. I'd never used it before.

I haven't worked with any in years, last time I think was probably helping my father replace a couple of boards in his boat probably 25 years ago. He used to call it Oregon pine.

Which reminds me......Leo should be posting a Tally Ho video this afternoon!

I hope you have some helpers come assembly time!

No, I'll be by myself. It goes up today.

 

[Mike G]

I looked at the date you started the GH and the other projects completed since then. You can be forgiven, just.

Yeah, other stuff just always seemed more important.

 

[NickM]

Which reminds me......Leo should be posting a Tally Ho video this afternoon!

He posted a message to say it wasn’t ready but that it should be today. When I saw the picture in this thread, for a Meon EY I wondered if you making planks for your boat project...

 

[Mike G]

The corner of a relatively flimsy building like this is of high importance. If there is any movement there then the building could fail. So, time for some big dovetails:









In hindsight, I should have made the tails slightly smaller, and given the half-pins a bit more guts.

Now, look at the size of those tails, and have a think about the difficulty of transfering the shape onto the end of the "tail board". For a start, there's the issue of holding a 2.2m 5x3 in place whilst marking it. Here's my solution to that:





Then, how do you mark out the tails onto the end-grain? Clearly a small marking knife is no good. I remembered and old shipwright's trick:



This enabled me to get a pencil in flush against the sides:





Then all you have to do is remember that the line isn't in the waste, and cut away:







You can see the saw marks in that last photo from running a tenon saw through the mitre, to get the joint just so. Pointlessly, of course, because that junction will be hidden under a mullion. Obviously, the joint is repeated at the other corner of the building.

More M&Ts, this time on the short side return plates. Everything chopped out by hand of course:





The corner mortices are somewhat different from the others, both in shape, and because they go through two different pieces of wood:





There is the added difficulty that there isn't enough room to use the obvious tool, a coping saw:



I dusted down the jigsaw instead:



Chopping out through the tail wasn't straight forward. I had to wedge stuff into the gap to support the work, otherwise we'd have had bouncing tools and break-out disaster:



But it all worked out in the end:



-

Cock-up! It's quite difficult to remember exactly where you are on the building when you are just working your way through a pile of wood, cutting rebates. There are two different rebates here. One for openings which will have an opening window, and one for openings with fixed glazing. The far end of the building, up against the hedge, will have fixed glazing, but unfortunately I ran the other sized rebate:



I simply planted a piece on. This is going to be the other way up and inside in the final build, so the junction isn't really vulnerable:



Here's a fun variation of the M&Ts, where there is a small rebate (for fixed glazing), and thus all of the mortice is up on the high bit, rather than down at rebate level:







This isn't just a random mullion. This is a mullion with a "down" joint on each end. There are two of these, and they are for the triangle part of the gables. Because I won't be sure of the roof geometry until the frame is erected, I made one of these pieces for each end of the building, and they'll be cut to length to suit the rafter, with a half-lap joint under the rafter:



OK, that's the end of the mullions and wall plates. My next update will cover the cill plates.

 

[Mike G]

Which reminds me......Leo should be posting a Tally Ho video this afternoon!

He posted a message to say it wasn’t ready but that it should be today. When I saw the picture in this thread, for a Meon EY I wondered if you making planks for your boat project...

It's the only woodworking video I can get my wife to watch. We'll be sitting down together in front of the TV to see it later, but I rather think she is more interested in the parrot, dogs and chickens than in the finer points of caulking bevels or peining bronze rivets.

 

[NickM]

It's the only woodworking video I can get my wife to watch. We'll be sitting down together in front of the TV to see it later, but I rather think she is more interested in the parrot, dogs and chickens than in the finer points of caulking bevels or peining bronze rivets.

Leo is a likeable and engaging chap which helps make the videos good to watch. His skill (at pretty much anything he seems to turn his hand to - including drawing) seems boundless too!

 

[Malc2098]

Still coming along nicely.

 

[Mike G]

I promised an update yesterday, but I was really tired after erecting the frame in situ. We won't get to that this time, but here are some more steps along the path.

I took an early decision to make the cills out of something a bit more durable, and the new woodyard I went to this time suggested sapele. I've never worked with it before:



These 9x3s are the biggest things that I've ever put through the planer thicknesser:



A couple of them needed a little straightening out before they were machined, and one was oversized and needed sawing to size. This meant a little work out for my new shooting plane (thanks Andy....it worked beautifully):



Having cleaned up the pieces, obviously the next job was to cut up a cornflakes packet:



I then allocated a location to each piece, and roughly recorded mitres and rebate locations, and anything else I needed to remember:



As I said, I've never worked with sapele before. I ws amazed at how nice it is. Nice curly shavings off and end grain, for instance:



Do the joinery first........that's always the rule. So before shaping the cills I worked on the mitred corner joints:





























That little bit of sapwood in the last photo was the only flaw in these pieces, and it wasn't a problem as it was removed in the profiling of the cill. Here are the steps in that shaping process. First, I routed a groove to define the front edge of the raised portion (with the guide on the opposite side so that any errors occured in the waste):





Then a couple of circular saw cuts:



That left a little sticky-up bit in the middle, which I roughed off with a power plane (note the boards to keep the dust and shavings from flying into awkward-to-clean corners:



Note that I wore a proper rubber face mask with a new filter for all operations with sapele. It's a wood I am not familiar with, and it produces a very fine dust.

It was actually really nice to plane, too, even though it has a very interlocking grain:



I rounded over the leading edge with a plane, and followed up giving some sandpaper a rare outing:



After clearing up:



I transfered the mullion locations from the wall plates:



I knew I'd hung on to that old set square for a reason:



I don't seem to have any photos of the mortices in the cill, but here is the process with the corresponding tenons. I cut the shoulders slightly short each time, put the post in place, and scribe to the cill. Necessarily with a hand-shaped piece like this there will be subtle variations, so this is the safest way of getting a good fit:





Twelve of those, and we were nearly ready for assembly!

 

[Mike G]

I knew there were some more photos.

The door openings have a mullion, but because they are at the end of the cill plates, they need something a bit more than just a M&T. Time for another couple of dovetails:

Tails first, and importantly, a shoulder on which to sit the mullion in place whilst marking for the socket:



Then the socket:





That gave me enough mullions to do a dry fit of that side of the framing:



Doing the corner posts into the mitred joints was a little awkward, because there are no references to get it vertical. I used my clamping guides:



Again, this was a question of cutting the shoulders out of position then scribing:







Here's one of the M&Ts for the fixed glazing section (with the broader upstand):



Finally, after running a drip groove, I drilled through at a very shallow angle into the bottom of each mortise, so that if any moisture got in there would be a way out, and there would be some air circulation to help keep the joint dry. Well, really they're to provide spiders with a home:



The mullions all got a final clean up, all the arrises removed, and a rounding over bead run along the inside edges:





All of the surfaces which would be up agaisnt brickwork were then painted a couple of times:



NOW, this time, we're ready for assembly.

 

[AndyT]

As so often with Mike's posts, I feel the need of a lie-down afterwards...but it's a lovely blend of power and hand tool work, whichever is quicker and more efficient.

Glad to see the spare plane in a good home. I'd call it a try plane, but I guess in your hands it's really "shooting" along at speed.

 

[Mike G]

If you'd call it a try plane, then a try plane it is! You're the expert. For me, the thing which counts is that it is 22" long, so a longer sole than anything else I have.

 

[9fingers]

If you'd call it a try plane, then a try plane it is! You're the expert. For me, the thing which counts is that it is 22" long, so a longer sole than anything else I have.

A curious name? As you well know I'm not a handplane user.
I can understand try quare although surely all squares would be used to "try" a corner for square.
Maybe in the case of the plane, "try" refers to a secondary application being to try a surface for flatness based on its length?
Another strange term seems to be Tote. Commonly used in woodworking for a bag or open box/tray for tools but also for the rear handle on a plane.

Bob

 

[AndyT]

Yes, try or trying in this sense does seem to be related to 'truing' - getting wood straight and true. You could call it a jointer if you want.

I really don't want to be dogmatic about this sort of use of language question. Different people at different times will have had different needs. If you only have one plane, it scarcely matters what you call it. If you are selling them or describing their use in a book, you need to distinguish between one size and another, especially if you introduce extra sizes into the range.

And often, the naming of tools is a fascinating muddle. Sometimes it's the size or shape that gives the name, but often it's the purpose to which a tool is put.

'Shooting plane' for example would most often mean any plane laid on its side for shooting an end or joint. Generally this would be whatever style suited the worker. Only relatively late did makers offer special shooting planes with handles on their sides, which only a few people bought.

 

[Mike G]

.....Another strange term seems to be Tote. Commonly used in woodworking for a bag or open box/tray for tools but also for the rear handle on a plane.

Bob

I think I'm possibly fairly sure that maybe this is perhaps an Americanism. As with "back saw", Americanisms have become adopted into UK English, even back in the first half of the 20th century. Andy will know better than me, but I think the standard UK term is handle rather than tote.

 

[Mike G]

.......You could call it a jointer if you want.......

That's what I meant to call it. My brain let me down. Again.

 

[AndyT]

.....Another strange term seems to be Tote. Commonly used in woodworking for a bag or open box/tray for tools but also for the rear handle on a plane.

Bob

I think I'm possibly fairly sure that maybe this is perhaps an Americanism. As with "back saw", Americanisms have become adopted into UK English, even back in the first half of the 20th century. Andy will know better than me, but I think the standard UK term is handle rather than tote.

I am pretty sure that tote is one of those words which used to be used in England in the 17th century (eg in Moxon) but died out, while surviving longer in the US. I would guess that its survival was helped by the Stanley company using it in catalogues and diagrams etc.

We had a long discussion on UKW about this, but really I think it belongs on a linguistics forum more than a woodworking one. But carry on toting that barge and lifting that bale...

 

[AndyP]

Enjoying following this as usual.

Those drainage/spider homes get commandeered by a wasp of some sort around here. They block up the holes
after laying, I guess, a single egg which then goes through the usual cycle before borrowing its way out. Unless I keep those holes clear a downpour in the wrong direction can result in water getting under the opening windows and into the house.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Enjoying following this as usual.

Those drainage/spider homes get commandeered by a wasp of some sort around here. They block up the holes
after laying, I guess, a single egg which then goes through the usual cycle before borrowing its way out. Unless I keep those holes clear a downpour in the wrong direction can result in water getting under the opening windows and into the house.

Don't want to hijack Mike's very enjoyable post, but could you not tack a square of insect mesh over the holes Andy to stop nesting but still allow water egress...?

 

[AJB Temple]

Admirable work Mike, and I am impressed with all those joints and the work ethic to spend at least 10 days doing them.

I could not face doing a wooden greenhouse myself with all that work and then painting on top. My wife required a greenhouse, and there was a derelict one here, so I fixed it. Then she wanted a potting shed so c concrete base was duly laid and large shed built, with power and water laid on. I try not to go in there as I am tidy and she is .....less so. I also clean my tools and she.....less so. Then I had to make a cold frame (cedar) on a low brick plinth. Then she wanted another greenhouse and at that point I bought an aluminium one and made her help me assemble the thing. Took all weekend to erect and put the glass in. I am hoping it has put her off asking for any other kitchen garden buildings.

I look forward to seeing your finished product.

 

[Mike G]

.......all that work.....

If I wasn't doing that work Adrian I'd be doing some other.

 

[AJB Temple]

Well, that makes sense. However, I shall not be showing any pictures of this building to my wife. She has enough Monty Don aspirations as it is. She just reminded me that I promised * to make her a scaffold plank outdoor potting table "like Monty has".



* promised. Definition. She suggests something and I either don't reply, change the subject or make a non-committal man grunt. In the female head I understand this is equivalent to a contract.

 

[Mike G]

Time to stand that pile of sticks in place. First phase on any job you do....clear the site. In this case, that meant getting the scaffold out of the way by erecting it:



I then glued the corners together, and when they were pulled tight, slipped a couple fo screws in underneath to act as permanent clamps:





There was no way this was going to be a quick glue-up, so my chosen adhesive is a construction adhesive with hours of an open time, flexible, watertight, paintable, and not cheap at all:



I stood all the mullions in place, bedded in glue:



Note the two bits of wood sticking out of the scaffolding. They were to hold the wall plate temporarily:



Next came the most awkward part, which was connecting up the vertical against the wall with the side horizontal members, standing it in place, then knocking the dovetails together. I needed a little help:



Note that the vertical against the wall isn't seated in its socket. I had to get both ends done, then shuffle the (now connected) 5 pieces of timber towards their final location in unison.



It was just a question of tapping and lowering, and soon enough all the joints were together.

Except one. Smeared in sticky gunk, and despite persuasion with my biggest hammer, it simply wouldn't sit down. I had to take it apart (which of course meant all the joints around it also came apart), prop it, check on what was fouling, and adjust:



In the end, though, it all went together nicely. I used ratched straps to pull everything up tight in sections, then inserted a screw through the tenon where I'd normally put a peg:



After truing everything up I fixed straight through the cill into the bricks with some big frame fixings. The whole process took all day, believe it or not.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Well, that makes sense. However, I shall not be showing any pictures of this building to my wife. She has enough Monty Don aspirations as it is. She just reminded me that I promised * to make her a scaffold plank outdoor potting table "like Monty has".



* promised. Definition. She suggests something and I either don't reply, change the subject or make a non-committal man grunt. In the female head I understand this is equivalent to a contract.

I believe those same contracts are in no way time limited either and can be revived or invoked at any point in the future...

 

[Mike G]

....... I shall not be showing any pictures of this building to my wife.....

Too late. I've sent them directly. :lol: :lol: *








*No, I haven't.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Looks excellent Mike. Now, I'm sure there's a very good reason, but why does the cill not match with the LHS of the wall...?

 

[Cabinetman]

Nice job Mike, I approve of the horrible sticky stuff it’s the only way to stop water ingress, and I feel for you I have just come off the roof after battling with bitumen, misty and 5°C here, really miserable but the black stuff must be good being that horrible and vile to work with. Ian
Ps I wasn’t going to mention that!

 

[Malc2098]

Nice.

 

[Mike G]

Looks excellent Mike. Now, I'm sure there's a very good reason, but why does the cill not match with the LHS of the wall...?

Neither side line up. When I did the brickwork 5 years ago I didn't have a finished design for the superstructure, so I made sure that the door opening was bigger than I needed. Better that sort of tolerance than have the opening too small! I'll be fitting a door frame inside the opening formed by the mullions, and putting packing pieces and cover strips in to make up the gap to the brickwork.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Makes sense. Why didn't you just make the frame to match the opening though? Symmetry?

 

[Mike G]

That would have affected the spacings of the window openings and the roof timbers. Essentially, I wanted all the rafters and mullions to all be the same distance apart.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Yup makes sense, ta. Remind me, will all the woodwork be painted in the same green?

 

[Mike G]

Yep. It's Bedec, of course.

 

[AJB Temple]

That email quip almost gave me heart failure for a moment.

Shows perfectly how workshop build can be transferred to site. I think that is good going for a day.

As an aside, how do you get on with that adhesive in low temperatures? I used it last year and the temperatures unexpectedly dropped to about 2 degrees in the afternoon and probably lower overnight. It was still sticky in the following morning, though it did cure eventually. It's around 5 degrees here at the moment. Hopefully you won't have a frosty night where you are.

 

[AJB Temple]

Supplementary question. Where you have that window into the potting shed, why didn't you make it a glazed door? Seed trays seem to have a journey that goes potting shed, greenhouse, cold frame, ground.

Have you planned in cold frames? Where the path is would be perfect as it gives a warm back wall and is convenient for the greenhouse.

Have you brought power into the greenhouse and potting shed? I discovered that this is essential as my wife gets a lot of seedlings going in heated propagation cabinets. These make early sowing much safer and bring on plants quite a bit quicker. (She also has a batch in one of the bedrooms, which I pretend not to know about).

 

[Mike G]

Supplementary question. Where you have that window into the potting shed, why didn't you make it a glazed door? Seed trays seem to have a journey that goes potting shed, greenhouse, cold frame, ground.

I kept on suggesting it, but my wife insisted that she valued the wall space in the potting shed instead. I just know I'll be taking an angle grinder to it one day.

Have you planned in cold frames? Where the path is would be perfect as it gives a warm back wall and is convenient for the greenhouse.

Yes, they're going to be on the left hand side of the greenhouse as you look at the above photos. The slab is extended there to take them. In fact, I ws just counting bricks for the cold frame now. How high do you reckon they should be?

Have you brought power into the greenhouse and potting shed? ....

The cable is there, but can't be connected until I have built the garage (coming up shortly), as this is where the other end of the cable is. We're planning on having a fridge freezer in the potting shed for veggie-patch produce, but also as a winter background-heat source.

 

[Mike G]

....As an aside, how do you get on with that adhesive in low temperatures? I used it last year and the temperatures unexpectedly dropped to about 2 degrees in the afternoon and probably lower overnight. It was still sticky in the following morning, though it did cure eventually. It's around 5 degrees here at the moment. Hopefully you won't have a frosty night where you are.

This erection happened yesterday, and it must have been 14 or 15 at least. I finished with the adhesive by about 2 or 2.30, and it was all cured by the evening. I wasn't aware of temperature with it, though, so I'll keep an eye out for that in future. Thanks.

 

[9fingers]

Please be careful in choosing your fridge freezer. Many have a single compressor and a certain proportion of the cooling effect is sent to the freezer section and the balance to the fridge section. The thermostat acts on the fridge section to stop in getting too cold. It is an economic design compromise
When this sort of FF is used in cold/cool locations, the ambient temperature can be low enough to satisfy the fridge stat such that it never has to switch on. As a consequence, the freezer never gets any cooling effort applied and so de-frosts.

DIY news groups seee these queries nearly every winter where folk have put an old FF in the garage and it defrosts or worse still, they go away for Christmas, turn off the heating and a similar thing happens with the FF in the kitchen.

Dual compressor FF are available for a price as they are effectively two independent appliance in one housing. These are obvious looking round the back as two black compressor units can be seen.

There are a few single compressor FF available and the minimum operating temperature should be buried in the spec somewhere. Of course buying second hand the original spec may well no longer be available on line.

hth
Bob

 

[AJB Temple]

All makes a sense Mike. I like the fridge freezer idea too.

I made our cold frames out of cedar and the backs are about 800mm and the fronts 450mm. Glazed on top obviously. I will do a snap when I next go up there and take non-guess measurements. I bought a special rail system to fit the lids and prevent the wind getting under them. It's very secure.

I think though for the next lot, I would make a raised platform, out of blocks or bricks, put lintels across and build the cold frames on that. The area underneath would be seed tray and pot storage. The advantage is much less bending down when accessing the frames. I would also install mist heads. Frankly I would be tempted to install heat mats as well. (We grow a lot of our pwn produce and extending the growing season and maximising pest protection is my motive here).

Very nice build thread.

 

[Mike G]

Please be careful in choosing your fridge freezer.......

I built my own fridge a few years ago, so this is something I can follow along with!

The easiest solution is to buy a fridge, and a separate freezer. That would work for us. There is also a reasonably simply work-around for a single-compressor FF, by cutting the wires to the thermostat in the fridge and wiring one into the freezer compartment instead. The fridge, after all, is mainly a place to keep stuff away from potential pests such as fruit fly, and, as you say, the ambient temperature will be low enough most of the time anyway.

 

[Mike G]

.....I made our cold frames out of cedar and the backs are about 800mm and the fronts 450mm.......

Excellent, thanks.