'Owl' Cabinet....Dun

[Woodbloke]

I've got another major project under way which is unsurprisingly a JK one, this time an interpretation of one of his 'Owl Cabinets' which feature upturned 'horns' and panels reminiscent of sails (which hark back to his yoof):








I decided this time to have a go at the doors first as they're always the most difficult things to make, 'specially these ones that are curved at one side. To that end I decided to make a prototype in pine which took a lot of faffing to sort out:



That worked quite well so I pressed on and started to make the proper doors, using some of the 'rounds' that I bought in Bristol a few years ago when I paid a visit to Andy T:



The first door didn't take too long to put together, with the prototype shown on the rhs and the second door flat on the bench. Note the green mdf 'falsies' in lieu of proper dominos:



The second door went together as planned:



The Ash panels are book matched; the centre stiles are slip matched as are the the top and bottom rails of each door. I need to do some more fiddling and faffing to make the curvature of the panels appear slightly 'tighter', but they're not too shabby as shown. Frame for this job will be in Paduk - Rob

 

[Cabinetman]

What was his thinking behind the curved panel Rob? Apart from being difficult to make, it would appear to let in light and dust without serving a purpose.
Not that it will stop me enjoying your build of course.

 

[Woodbloke]

What was his thinking behind the curved panel Rob? Apart from being difficult to make, it would appear to let in light and dust without serving a purpose.
Not that it will stop me enjoying your build of course.

As I mentioned at the beginning, JK did a lot of sailing in small boats when he was a yoof and these curved panels are supposed to be reminiscent of sails catching the wind. Once I'd worked out how to make them, they weren't too difficult as they're held in the door frames with three walnut splines (one long and two shorter ones). Yes, they appear very difficult to make but in actual fact they were quite easy....once I'd fathomed out how JK did it - Rob

 

[Dr.Al]

Hmm. I'm looking forward to reading the WIP on this as I'm sure the techniques involved will be really interesting, but that cabinet is... how shall I put it... definitely not to my taste.

 

[Woodbloke]

Hmm. I'm looking forward to reading the WIP on this as I'm sure the techniques involved will be really interesting, but that cabinet is... how shall I put it... definitely not to my taste.

Much of JK's work is unique in many ways and much of it is flavoured with Marmite Don't expect a full on WIP warts n'all Dr.Al 'cos I gave up on those a long time ago but I'll post the significant highlights as and when they occur - Rob

 

[Mike G]

Don't expect a full on WIP warts n'all Dr.Al 'cos I gave up on those a long time ago but I'll post the significant highlights as and when they occur - Rob

I thought you promised to return to doing those when the forum moved to new software. Didn't you?

 

[Woodbloke]

I thought you promised to return to doing those when the forum moved to new software. Didn't you?

I don't mind doing a basic WIP Mike, but it's a lot of effort and quite a lot of forum members appear not to be really interested and would far rather discuss at length non-related general stuff on the Woodmanglers Retreat. If there was any real enthusiasm it might be worth it but sadly that doesn't appear to be the case - Rob

Edit - I've even started to use UKW again where there seems to be a bit more woodwork going on.

 

[AndyT]

I for one regard the project WIPs as the reason for this forum. Anything else is just incidental.

 

[Mike]

I don't mind doing a basic WIP Mike, but it's a lot of effort and quite a lot of forum members appear not to be really interested and would far rather discuss at length non-related general stuff on the Woodmanglers Retreat. If there was any real enthusiasm it might be worth it but sadly that doesn't appear to be the case - Rob

I would certainly like to see a WIP thread. As soon as I find the time, I'll use the special "Draft Build Project Threads" subforum to create a build thread.

Edit - I've even started to use UKW again where there seems to be a bit more woodwork going on.

I don't visit there much, but peeked in today. There appears to be more conversation about previously banned topics than workshop projects.

 

[Woodbloke]

I for one regard the project WIPs as the reason for this forum. Anything else is just incidental.

I totally agree with you Andy, but if you were to closely examine the posts, you'll find that the members that produce a decent, detailed WIP (I'm not one of them btw) can counted on the fingers of one hand - Rob

 

[NickM]

I totally agree with you Andy, but if you were to closely examine the posts, you'll find that the members that produce a decent, detailed WIP (I'm not one of them btw) can counted on the fingers of one hand - Rob

It doesn't need to be super-detailed. Phots with some brief description would be brill.

 

[Woodbloke]

It doesn't need to be super-detailed. Phots with some brief description would be brill.

That's pretty much my approach, but I'd far rather members asked questions if any process or procedure isn't quite clear enough as Ian did at the beginning of this thread.

I've now tidied up the curved bits of the panels so they're slightly 'tighter' than shown in the pics, bearing in mind that each panel was produced from a blank 25mm thick where most of the waste was removed on my large bandsaw. The two bits sawn off will be used for building the interior drawer compartment in due course - Rob

 

[—Tom—]

Loads of really nice details in that, and really like the figuring in the Ash. Always nice when the more you look at something and the more you look the more you see.
How are you planning to do the horns? Looks like trying to glue on pieces is economical but may change the visual impact. If you can saw out the extra thickness gives you more thin stock I guess.

Really enjoy the photos and descriptions

 

[meccarroll]

It looks like a nice cabinet with some unusual details and should be a piece that will show off your cabinet making skills. Should be interesting to see how you construct it.

 

[Woodbloke]

How are you planning to do the horns? Looks like trying to glue on pieces is economical but may change the visual impact. If you can saw out the extra thickness gives you more thin stock I guess.

I've thought about that bit quite a lot! I'll probably carve them with a gouge and leave the finish straight from the tool as the sides are each 25mm thick again so I've plenty of material to play with; this is a technique that JK quite often used - Rob

 

[AndyP]

By horns do you mean the curved tops to the side panels?
Why would you not do those with a rounding plane? Because it will be across the grain?

 

[TrimTheKing]

I don't mind doing a basic WIP Mike, but it's a lot of effort and quite a lot of forum members appear not to be really interested and would far rather discuss at length non-related general stuff on the Woodmanglers Retreat. If there was any real enthusiasm it might be worth it but sadly that doesn't appear to be the case - Rob

Edit - I've even started to use UKW again where there seems to be a bit more woodwork going on.

Catch 22 Rob, people discuss other stuff because of the lack of WIP's. To paraphrase Field of Dreams "Build it and they will come..."

Be a leader Rob, be the behaviour you want to see in others! Come on, you can do it, I believe in you!

 

[Woodbloke]

By horns do you mean the curved tops to the side panels?
Why would you not do those with a rounding plane? Because it will be across the grain?

Those are they Andy and the bits that fit into the stand. Partly it's because it's across the grain which means the surfaces then have to be smoothed which could be very awkward as their only about 30 - 40mm high. I think the effect of a finish left from the gouge would also look quite acceptable provided it's done accurately and with some degree of finesse. The late and very great Alan Peters was also keen on this sort of effect - Rob

Edit - Mark, there's a little bit of 'tongue in cheek' going on here!

 

[AndyT]

It's difficult, isn't it, to find the right middle way between making something machine-made perfect and having it look rough. I'm sure you will hit it.

 

[duke]

I've got another major project under way which is unsurprisingly a JK one, this time an interpretation of one of his 'Owl Cabinets' which feature upturned 'horns' and panels reminiscent of sails (which hark back to his yoof):

View attachment 28677


View attachment 28678

View attachment 28679

I decided this time to have a go at the doors first as they're always the most difficult things to make, 'specially these ones that are curved at one side. To that end I decided to make a prototype in pine which took a lot of faffing to sort out:

View attachment 28680

That worked quite well so I pressed on and started to make the proper doors, using some of the 'rounds' that I bought in Bristol a few years ago when I paid a visit to Andy T:

View attachment 28681

The first door didn't take too long to put together, with the prototype shown on the rhs and the second door flat on the bench. Note the green mdf 'falsies' in lieu of proper dominos:

View attachment 28682

The second door went together as planned:

View attachment 28683

The Ash panels are book matched; the centre stiles are slip matched as are the the top and bottom rails of each door. I need to do some more fiddling and faffing to make the curvature of the panels appear slightly 'tighter', but they're not too shabby as shown. Frame for this job will be in Paduk - Rob

Are the door hinges used on JKs cabinet called a blade hinge?
I have only seen them used once before in a built in bookcase, storage unit I had to remove for a client. Kept the hinges but can't find them now.
The wing panels of the doors look interesting!

 

[Woodbloke]

Are the door hinges used on JKs cabinet called a blade hinge?

These are the hinges I use from Classic Hand Tools - Rob

 

[duke]

Thanks Rob,I got the name wrong, over here Lee Valley calls them a Knife Hinge. Not really a good description but are similar.

 

[Woodbloke]

Thanks Rob,I got the name wrong, over here Lee Valley calls them a Knife Hinge. Not really a good description but are similar.

The hinges are Brusso and made in the US, so we refer to them as 'knife hinges' as well - Rob

 

[Cabinetman]

And surprisingly Rob they are only a fraction cheaper here. So expensive as they are, that’s just the way it is.

 

[Dr.Al]

I don't mind doing a basic WIP Mike, but it's a lot of effort and quite a lot of forum members appear not to be really interested and would far rather discuss at length non-related general stuff on the Woodmanglers Retreat. If there was any real enthusiasm it might be worth it but sadly that doesn't appear to be the case - Rob

I do know what you mean. Writing a WIP on here sometimes can feel a bit like shouting into the void, with minimal interaction (unless you mention cider import limits ).

I partly do it because I quite enjoy the process of writing it up (and looking back on how skills have progressed compared to earlier WIPs). Most of mine get published on my website at the same time as on here and some go on the MIG welding forum too (which often gets more comments, even for woodwork projects, than on here, although the advice on here is generally more useful). I haven't quite resorted to going back to UKW (although I occasionally post a finished item photo in the "last thing you've made" thread).

I must admit to being guilty of not commenting enough myself though so I'm being a bit hypocritical. I rarely bother even reading the non-project threads. However, on the project threads I often don't know what to say (partly knowing that the WIP writer is WAY more experienced than me) that would be useful and non-repetitive so I often say nothing. I think I was brought up with a mindset of "if you haven't got anything valuable to say, say nothing", but that can result in the "shouting into the void" feeling for WIP writers.

Perhaps we all need to try a little harder to comment and get the discussions flowing better. Consider this my first attempt!

 

[MattS]

Interesting cabinet, I don't normally like things too fussy - but the little details are quite unusual on that. Does your door have the gap like the original, slightly different photo angles so it is difficult to tell.

 

[Woodbloke]

I do know what you mean. Writing a WIP on here sometimes can feel a bit like shouting into the void, with minimal interaction (unless you mention cider import limits ).

I partly do it because I quite enjoy the process of writing it up (and looking back on how skills have progressed compared to earlier WIPs). Most of mine get published on my website at the same time as on here and some go on the MIG welding forum too (which often gets more comments, even for woodwork projects, than on here, although the advice on here is generally more useful). I haven't quite resorted to going back to UKW (although I occasionally post a finished item photo in the "last thing you've made" thread).

I must admit to being guilty of not commenting enough myself though so I'm being a bit hypocritical. I rarely bother even reading the non-project threads. However, on the project threads I often don't know what to say (partly knowing that the WIP writer is WAY more experienced than me) that would be useful and non-repetitive so I often say nothing. I think I was brought up with a mindset of "if you haven't got anything valuable to say, say nothing", but that can result in the "shouting into the void" feeling for WIP writers.

Perhaps we all need to try a little harder to comment and get the discussions flowing better. Consider this my first attempt!

Thanks for that Dr.Al, much appreciated! It can get a tad dispiriting at times when when you've done a shed load of detailed and concentrated work, posted it on the forum and it receives no more than a couple of cursory comments...perhaps I exaggerate but you get the drift. I read the 'making' threads, but again comment when I can see something that perhaps I would do differently (not necessarily better) or maybe a glaring fault (I've made plenty btw) or something that's really exceptional that's worth highlighting.

Don't mention EV's either.

Interesting cabinet, I don't normally like things too fussy - but the little details are quite unusual on that. Does your door have the gap like the original, slightly different photo angles so it is difficult to tell.

Yep, the doors on this job have the curved panels but not quite so pronounced as the original - Rob

 

[Woodbloke]

Domino jointing done on the two sides of the cabinet:



The doors also sit in a rebate along the front of the cabinet sides; this was machined as well this afternoon:



This ultimately determines the length of the veneered cabinet top and bottom:



...one of which is shown on the rhs, together with the doors. There's going to be some very careful measuring, or even a rod, to work out exactly where to cut them to length for a snug fit, allowing some leeway for fitting n'fettling - Rob

 

[Dr.Al]

Out of interest, what sort of joinery would JK have used in something like that? I assume that Domino(e?)s were a bit after his time.

Is that one of them thar fancy shooting board planes I spy in the background?

 

[Woodbloke]

JK and his probable (or nae) use of the Domino was often debated years ago when the tool was first introduced. The general consensus of opinion at the time was that he'd have donated a wisdom tooth to have access to one, so in that light I don't feel guilty about its use. That said, he was a big user of dowels so I guess in a project like this he would have used them. The beauty of the Dom system (apart from its speed) is that the corresponding slots in the top and bottom will be made wider allowing a degree of 'slideability' for fitting and eventual gluing.

Well spotted on the LN51...that'll set you up the better part of a grand now to buy one. I didn't pay anything like that as Ian Styles (then MD of Ax years ago) let me have some 'discount' - Rob

 

[fiveeyes]

I, most certainly follow your works, Rob. You push yourself, it seems, to try the more difficult.
Cudos for that. I have nicked some of your techniques, too. Please do continue.

Wishing I had more time to do "real" woodwork. bill

 

[Woodbloke]

I, most certainly follow your works, Rob. You push yourself, it seems, to try the more difficult.

I saw a pithy comment on 'soshal meeja' (thanks Bob9f ) a while back that mentioned 'if you don't push yourself to boldly go and attempt a bit of blue sky thinking in a project that's beyond your capabilities, you'll never, ever make any progress but just get stuck in a rut forever going round and round in circles' or similar so you're right; I do attempt to push the boundaries and sometimes they get pushed too far. After all JK was continually pushing his boundaries to see what could be achieved and if he could do it, the rest of us can.



This pic of JK sums up what should happen and that is that you need to stop and really think your way through all the processes and it then becomes easier, but not much - Rob

 

[Cabinetman]

First time in a few days to have the time to sit and concentrate on this, it’s looking really good, love the Ash. Top and bottom to sides fixing in my opinion is calling out for a tapered Dovetail housing which would pull the cabinet together. Not a criticism at all as the way you’ve done it will be very strong, just different.
The horns won’t be much of a challenge for you Rob I don’t think.
You are a prolific maker Rob, and I wonder if you think you build things a bit too quickly to enjoy the make? Crikey you only started this this week and it’s flying along. Or is the end result what you want to see? Again it’s not a criticism, just curious really.
Ian

 

[Cabinetman]

Didn’t occur to me earlier but I wonder why he didn’t mount the door panels in grooves, the sails could then have emerged through the front of the frame, I think that would look really cool, all the expansion/shrinking would have to be on the other edge of the door but the panels aren’t that wide so not really a problem.
Also he could have made the grooves in the rails quite deep to extenuate the look, it would also draw the viewers eye to that feature, which just viewing straight onto the front of the cabinet, the sails aren’t that apparent on his.

 

[Woodbloke]

First time in a few days to have the time to sit and concentrate on this, it’s looking really good, love the Ash. Top and bottom to sides fixing in my opinion is calling out for a tapered Dovetail housing which would pull the cabinet together. Not a criticism at all as the way you’ve done it will be very strong, just different.
The horns won’t be much of a challenge for you Rob I don’t think.
You are a prolific maker Rob, and I wonder if you think you build things a bit too quickly to enjoy the make? Crikey you only started this this week and it’s flying along. Or is the end result what you want to see? Again it’s not a criticism, just curious really.
Ian

Thanks Ian, but this one I think is going to take well into next year and possibly be finished around summer time or later; one or two of these JK interpretations have taken a full year to make What makes the build go quickly is that there's no faffing around with complicated joinery such as you mention; it's something that JK appeared not to do and he was far more concerned with the aesthetic appeal of the piece which is the route I generally follow.

Didn’t occur to me earlier but I wonder why he didn’t mount the door panels in grooves, the sails could then have emerged through the front of the frame, I think that would look really cool, all the expansion/shrinking would have to be on the other edge of the door but the panels aren’t that wide so not really a problem.
Also he could have made the grooves in the rails quite deep to extenuate the look, it would also draw the viewers eye to that feature, which just viewing straight onto the front of the cabinet, the sails aren’t that apparent on his.

That's exactly what he's done and I've done it the same way. The curved panels will be glued using splines in a groove in the...



...centre stile and in stopped grooves on the top and bottom rails. Agree about viewing the piece straight on as it's difficult to see the curvature of the panels which only becomes apparent when it's viewed from the side. Again, domino construction which is quick and simple so no faffing around with bridle joints as in JK's original - Rob

Edit - the top and bottom of the cabinet are 2mm thick book matched veneers on a quarter sawn pine substrate; not particularly clear from the pic.

 

[Cabinetman]

No sorry I didn’t describe it well, ( almost as bad as my sketch lol) this will hopefully show what I meant.

 

[Cabinetman]

Well I was wrong then haha, it perhaps just seemed like it was going to be finished in no time at all. (Glad it will keep you busy)
But you have awoken a bit of an interest in Krenov. His work is interesting and attractive, from an uninspiring Wiki page it seems that he hardly drew working drawings, preferring to let the wood dictate which way the piece flowed. Not something I’ve ever done really, still I’ve got a few years left yet.
Images from Google show a lot of pieces by him and inspired by him. He certainly does like the cabinet on a stick frame type of work, and dowels, which tbh I found surprising, but overall it’s the wood and the grain that comes through.
I suspect that there are few others who have built as many of his pieces as you Rob. Credit due.

 

[Woodbloke]

Well I was wrong then haha, it perhaps just seemed like it was going to be finished in no time at all. (Glad it will keep you busy)
But you have awoken a bit of an interest in Krenov. His work is interesting and attractive, from an uninspiring Wiki page it seems that he hardly drew working drawings, preferring to let the wood dictate which way the piece flowed. Not something I’ve ever done really, still I’ve got a few years left yet.
Images from Google show a lot of pieces by him and inspired by him. He certainly does like the cabinet on a stick frame type of work, and dowels, which tbh I found surprising, but overall it’s the wood and the grain that comes through.
I suspect that there are few others who have built as many of his pieces as you Rob. Credit due.

Thanks Ian. His was the old fashioned 'fag packet' approach and as far as I know, he never drew a formal working drawings(s )for any of his pieces. Instead, where necessary, there were detailed free hand sketches, with dimensions to flesh out any ideas that he was unsure about. It's true though, that the wood available (sometimes only one thick plank) dictated what he could make from it, utilising the grain to best advantage and again, that's what I try and do. The material for the cabinet itself was a very limited number of short, but very wide boards from a superb Ash tree in a London park and once it's gone, I can't go down to the local wood yard and grab another bit if I make a mistake (it has been known)

The stand will be in Paduk which has a pretty uniform grain without too much of a distinct pattern. I bought several large and very thick boards from Yandles some years ago so that doesn't present too much of a problem as I've got plenty of it in the 'shop

I can't recollect how many interpretations (never direct copies) of his work I've made but all told, it's quite a few - Rob

 

[NickM]

Rob, dumb question, but how do you do the dominos in the end panels? Do you clamp something across the panel to use as a reference for the domino machine?

I've fairly recently bought one so need to learn the tricks of the trade!

 

[Woodbloke]

Rob, dumb question, but how do you do the dominos in the end panels? Do you clamp something across the panel to use as a reference for the domino machine?

I've fairly recently bought one so need to learn the tricks of the trade!

Nick, if you're referring to the Dom slots already machined in the vertical end boards, you can see from the image above (^) that I've used a home brewed plywood square made exactly that purpose. If fact I made two of them, one left and one right handed and they've been in pretty constant use for this sort of application. You definitely won't regret getting hold of a machine! - Rob