Time for a new bench (dog holes)

[AndyT]

And when you get a few minutes more, you'll finish off Tally Ho!

 

[Dr.Al]

Mike doing this: "I only got a few hours at this in the afternoon". Anyone else doing the same thing: "This is what I've been doing for the last fortnight" :lol:

 

[NickM]

This is going to be a great bench Mike.

Out of interest, why are you doing breadboard ends?

 

[MattS]

Looking good - those screw (clamps) are you starting as you mean to go on and not worried about holes before you've even started using it!? Or will the apron be screwed on when complete?

 

[AJB Temple]

Lovely work.

I'm still not back in the w/s (2 more weeks) so feeling jealous of progress.

All that chisel work looked like hard work to me and I have to confess that I would have set the track saw to depth and done the outside edges, then got the big router out with a support board and taken all the waste out (even though I do own big framing chisels).

Never really understood the apron approach to benches. Why did you choose that design Mike (versus dog holes in the legs etc that a lot of designs use)?

 

[Mike G]

This is going to be a great bench Mike.

Out of interest, why are you doing breadboard ends?

To restrain the beech. Particularly the big piece, which was cupped (as well as bowed). My experience is that even if you flatten something it has a tendency to try again, even though it is dry as hell (7% and under).

 

[Mike G]

Looking good - those screw (clamps) are you starting as you mean to go on and not worried about holes before you've even started using it!? Or will the apron be screwed on when complete?

The apron will be screwed on. The top edge of the apron forms the front edge of the bench, so it is where it will wear out first. In 20 years I (or someone else) might want to replace the apron, so it will just be screwed in place.

 

[Mike G]

.....Never really understood the apron approach to benches. Why did you choose that design Mike (versus dog holes in the legs etc that a lot of designs use)?

I'm ever the traditionalist......but mainly to resist racking. This joint I am making at the moment provides a lot of longitudinal strength to the bench. I think the work-holding thing on the face of the bench is entirely secondary, to the point of being trivial. I've managed for 40 years without pegs etc on the front face of the bench, and I've worked with a few long boards and big panels, doors etc in that time.

 

[Pete Maddex]

I have a floor standing dead man that works well. its just a bit od 1x2 with holes drilled in and a small base.

Pete

 

[Mike G]

I have a floor standing dead man that works well. its just a bit od 1x2 with holes drilled in and a small base.

Pete

Well, exactly, Pete. I just keep a couple of offcuts of 6x4 handy, and use whichever one is about the right height. Otherwise, I clamp something to the leg, or to the apron. Pegs will be a bonus, but as I said, workholding on the face of the bench is entirely of secondary importance.

 

[Andy Kev.]

I think it was quite clever to use the shallow gouge. I'm sure it would have ended in tears of frustration if I had tried that. Would it perhaps have been easier (albeit a bit more work) to have fixed a router plane to a wide piece of wood?

 

[AndyT]

I agree on the gouge. An ordinary chisel works like a normal bench plane. But a gouge is the freehand equivalent of a heavily cambered jack/fore/scrub plane.

 

[AJB Temple]

I was talking to a Dutch engineer today about hand tools versus machines and technology, as a result of this thread where Mike eschews machines. He is an aerospace engineer, professor at set up in Delft. Expert in fabricating stuff out of graphene and polymers. (Turbine blades etc). He said that although it is nonsensical to use hand skills to make things these days, the loss of the ability to do so will be regretted by mankind as our dependence on technology takes over everything. He told me a story about how his father had served an apprenticeship for Fokker and as a skills test had to cut and file by hand a perfect steel cube of a given size and tolerance, and then make a sphere out of aluminium that would exactly fit inside a box the same size, touching all six sides. He reckoned that no mechanical engineering graduate at the university would have the skill to make either today.

I seem to recall my father, also an engineer, telling me years ago that he had to do a similar thing (the cube anyway) when he did his apprenticeship in Coventry. When some global disaster strikes and the internet disappears, our young people will be totally up the creek without a paddle. :?

 

[Mike G]

I agree on the gouge. An ordinary chisel works like a normal bench plane. But a gouge is the freehand equivalent of a heavily cambered jack/fore/scrub plane.

Spot on. This is a perfect description of paring with a gouge compred to a chisel. Following up the gouge work with a chisel was like going from a scrub plane to smoother: knocking off the high spots/ ridges.

 

[Cabinetman]

This is going to be a great bench Mike.

Out of interest, why are you doing breadboard ends?

To restrain the beech. Particularly the big piece, which was cupped (as well as bowed). My experience is that even if you flatten something it has a tendency to try again, even though it is dry as hell (7% and under).

You may remember I asked if you were going to be using Steamed German Beech Mike, I think they steam it to make it more stable, my bench top that I made 15 years ago from it hasn’t moved at all.

Ian

 

[Doug]

Good progress Mike :eusa-clap:
I always understood they steamed beech to enhance the colour not to make it more stable, steaming it too much will actually weaken it.
My own bench was made from steamed beech as it was the only beech I could get at the time & that has certainly shrunk & moved.

 

[Mike G]

Good progress Mike :eusa-clap:.....

Thanks Doug. Hopefully it'll be finished this weekend.

 

[Mike G]

When you've no bench, and particularly no vice, making small stuff is difficult. Holding it still whilst you work on it takes some ingenuity. I tried this. It didn't work:



This was tricky too:



I'm making the wedges for the halving joints I did yesterday. I fiddled away until they fitted:





The off-cut from the leg made a useful proxy for the leg, enabling me to plane a decent fit onto the wedges. If you see behind the apron you can see one of the reasons why a dovetail wedge was necessary: the frame is in the way, so you can't feed the wedge into place and ensure it stays all the way down into the housing without the dovetail shape. Otherwise, the wedge could wiggle its way out of the joint:



The wedge remains available for tapping tighter:



I only got an hour in the workshop today, so that was pretty much it. I did clean up one of the old boards from my old bench top:





And yeah, the old bench was anything but flat!:



This is how the top is going to work:



Tomorrow, breadboard ends, and hopefully gluing the top up.

 

[Trevanion]

I always understood they steamed beech to enhance the colour not to make it more stable, steaming it too much will actually weaken it.

Yes, Beech can have a few different hues ranging from a light straw to quite a bright pink, so it's steamed which gives it a more homogenous colour throughout though I'm not exactly certain how it works. Another timber that's steamed is Holly, usually right after felling and milling to prevent it from losing its bright white colour and becoming silver with green hues.

 

[Mike G]

Everything today was geared up to one goal: getting the top glued up. I thought I'd probably be OK for that. I started work on the breadboard ends by knifing the shoulder lines:



The dimensions of the tongue was determined by the thickness of the thinner, re-used, board at the back:



Knife wall:



I only saw to lines I can see, so these big cuts involve turning the board, and end-for-ending it to cut all the shoulders:



Now, I don't know when I last mentioned it ( :lol: ), but it's time for Mike's Rule of Halves:









Unfortunately, it was just too deep for my router plane:



So, it was back to screw-in-stick, paring, and the number 10:



At that point, I suddenly had to rush off somewhere for an hour and a half. When I got back, I was up against the clock. I reached for the circular saw and did a whole series of cross cuts to aid waste removal:



I marked out for the tenons, and cut them:



Instead of setting up a plough plane or whatever and planing out the groove, I grabbed the screaming monster and sprayed the workshop with dust:



Marking up for the mortices was next. I want the front edge to remain true, and any movement to show itself at the back of the bench, so the nearest mortice is marked tight and accurately, and the further back you go the wider they get:



I drilled out the waste on my pillar drill. A Forstner bit is useless in such deep holes, as it can't get the waste away efficiently, so I used a spade bit for most of it, and then got an accurate bottom by swapping to a Forstner:



Lots of chiselling ensued:







To show the movement I am allowing for, this is the middle board. Note the location of the pencil mark:





Actually, when I saw that I went and chopped a little more out of one side of a mortice to allow a few more millimetres.

Here's the thinner rear board:



A trial fit, and my chance to mark up for the draw-bore holes in the tenons:





On to fitting the vice, which would be a big pain to do if trying to turn, flip, and move a glued-up bench-top. I measured and marked for a cut-out in the apron:





Same for a slot in the underside of the top:





I was still rushing like mad to make the glue-up this evening, so was really pleased not to split out the 5mm thick wall of that long mortice.

An off-cut of the old bench top was cut to form a packer/spacer, and the vice check-fitted:



Removing this pin allows the vice to come apart:



I used some big coach screws (with waxed threads) to fix the vice in place:



Then took the vice to bits and re-fitted the apron:



Close, but not close enough:



At that point I decided to call it a day. 7.45 PM, and I didn't want to spoil anything by rushing. I needed to adjust the hole in the apron, take vice off to locate for machine screws through the apron, drill those holes, make a couple of dozen pegs, elongate the tenon holes with a rasp, cut some slots for buttons, and then glue. That's an hour or two, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow. When you guys accuse me of being quick, it's usually only that I'm efficient (ie I have all the materials, I know what I'm doing, and I plan my glue-ups to be in the evening and dry overnight). Failing like this today means I will effectively waste half a day tomorrow. Last job of the day was to leave myself a note so that I don't cock-up the first job of the day tomorrow:

 

[Lons]

Impressive stuff Mike.
Do you leave heating on overnight for glue ups? I did some small items last week and the glue didn't set properly as it was too cold.

 

[Mike G]

If it's small I often bring it into the house. That's not really an option for the bench.....but then it's going to be glued in the middle of the day, now, so the problem doesn't arise. I'll only leave the heating on if I really have to. Sometimes if I glue up at 4 or 5 oclock I'll leave the heating on until I go to bed, and by then the glue has had plenty of time to go off.

 

[Cabinetman]

Reassuring that you fitted your vice exactly as I do, but I don’t go quite so close (the 5mm) to the front edge. Curious how far below the bench top the metalwork is?
All good stuff Mike
Edit just had the thought that my apron is below the top so that affects the layout of the long Mortice completely.
I mistakenly put the blue yolk shaped piece on upside down last time I took it off to fit a vice as you have— they don’t work at all well like that lol. I was called up by a friend once to help as he had done the same thing.
Ian

 

[Mike G]

About 15mm for the moving jaw, if I've measured properly. The fixed jaw is about 11mm.

 

[Cabinetman]

Sorry edited as you replied, so the jaws aren’t the same height? That’s about the same as I fitted mine, I had visions of me bursting through the top.

 

[AJB Temple]

Great photo sequence. Very clear.

 

[Mike G]

Sorry edited as you replied, so the jaws aren’t the same height? That’s about the same as I fitted mine, I had visions of me bursting through the top.

I reckon the point of my spade bit was within 2mm of the surface. I was very nervous drilling.

 

[johnward]

Mike, your method for fixing the vice is fascinating and brilliant. Much better than my effort.
Thanks again for all the progress photos of your bench building - very enjoyable viewing.

 

[Mike G]

First on the agenda today was sorting out the holes for the machine screws which screw through the apron into the fixed jaw of the vice. I took everything apart, put the vice very carefully on its marks, and marked the holes:







I drilled through from the marked side with a small drill, so that I could drill out for the screw heads on the other side. Obviously if you drill a big hole through you make it hard for yourself to drill an even bigger one:



Next, I enlarged the hole around the vice screw etc:





The machine screws met the under-edge of the bench-top rather awkwardly, but I just chiselled out around them:



I put everything together again, and was pleased when the machine screws lioned up easily and screwed in:



I put the moving jaw back into the fixed jaw, temporarily, to mark for interference on the frame below:



Soon solved:



I ran a quick rebate for the ply which will form the bottom of the tool well:



......and using the same machine and cutter did a series of short slots for buttons (some here in an out-of-sequence image):



I thought I would bolt this behemoth to the wall. Not so much for racking resistance and extra stability as to keep the cracks to a minimum to keep the dust accumulation and spider population down:





I only had 2 of those, but that will do, I'm sure.

Next, it was time to bash some pegs through the dowel plate:





The old bench top has been sequestered to form the rear of the new bench-top. However, its square dog holes are not required. I made ksome Dutchmen. The key to success with Dutchmen is to slightly taper the sides. The following photo was meant to illustrate this, but it doesn't show up well:









I elongated the peg holes in the tenons, where necessary:



Once this top is glued up, it will be beyond my strength to move it alone. I'm going to be gluing it up sort-of in situ, but I don't want it sticking to the frame:



I slapped a layer of glue on the board edges, and only then remembered that I had wanted to tighten up two of the tenons. The tongues were fine, but the tenoons a bit slack. I quickly cut a kerf, and ran up 2 wedges.......with glue drying all the while:



When the breadboard end is bashed home the wedges will be driven in and the tenons will expand. As I said yesterday, I want the near-side end of the breadboard end to remain in place, and for movement to happen at the far end. So, I glued the nearest tenon:







Nine out of the 10 pegs went home nicely, pulling the shoulders up reasonable tightly. Second down from the top wouldn't co-operate:



All told, it wasn't a perfect glue-up, but I've done worse. This is the worst joint:



It's not a piece of furniture, but I think I'll probably fill that gap otherwise dust will accumulate and that can act as a wedge/ ratchet, eventually forcing the joint wider open. There will be quite a bit of planing to do. I hope the underside isn't too bad because it is going to be almost impossible to turn that bench-top over. We'll see tomorrow.

 

[AndyP]

We are blessed with a plethora or excellent projects at the moment. Great stuff.

Why dutchmen and not just wooden plugs, I wonder :eusa-think:

 

[AndyT]

...

It's not a piece of furniture, but I think I'll ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶f̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶g̶a̶p̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶w̶i̶s̶e̶ ̶ just let dust ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ accumulate and that can ̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶w̶e̶d̶g̶e̶/̶ ̶r̶a̶t̶c̶h̶e̶t̶,̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶c̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶j̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ ̶w̶i̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶p̶e̶n̶ conceal the gap nicely...

There, I fixed that for you!

 

[Mike G]

.....Why dutchmen and not just wooden plugs, I wonder :eusa-think:

Etymologically speaking, you mean? I've no idea. In woodworking terms, though, I guess the difference is that plugs show the end grain, but Dutchmen run with the grain of the wood into which they are fixed.

 

[Mike G]

...

It's not a piece of furniture, but I think I'll ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶f̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶g̶a̶p̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶w̶i̶s̶e̶ ̶ just let dust ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ accumulate and that can ̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶w̶e̶d̶g̶e̶/̶ ̶r̶a̶t̶c̶h̶e̶t̶,̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶c̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶j̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ ̶w̶i̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶p̶e̶n̶ conceal the gap nicely...

There, I fixed that for you!

As an aside, how did you manage to draw a line through that text? I've seen it on other fora, but not here.

 

[AndyT]

Any of several strikethrough text websites such as https://www.piliapp.com/cool-text/strikethrough-text/
will give you something to copy and paste into the edit box.

 

[Mike G]

Thanks. Something else to remember......

 

[Cabinetman]

Fox wedging is very difficult to get consistently right, and there’s no going back!

 

[AJB Temple]

Gap solution. Look at Malc's thread. Get some binding in figured sycamore or ebony or something, cut a narrow slot at both ends of bench with router against a template and let the binding in as an inlay. It adds a bit of bling and does the job perfectly as if you always intended it. Not a joke - it is what I would do as that gap would really annoy me.

 

[Cabinetman]

Sorry, I should have said what a shame it is, it’s visually let down an otherwise excellent bench.
Ian

 

[Mike G]

Gap solution. Look at Malc's thread. Get some binding in figured sycamore or ebony or something, cut a narrow slot at both ends of bench with router against a template and let the binding in as an inlay. It adds a bit of bling and does the job perfectly as if you always intended it. Not a joke - it is what I would do as that gap would really annoy me.

I don't think it will surprise anyone when I say that I won't be doing this. The last thing I want with a bench is "bling". Further, the breadboard ends and the boards are designed to move independently. Gluing something in between them would potentially spoil that plan, and lead to the potential for splitting the benchtop.

 

[Mike G]

Fox wedging is very difficult to get consistently right, and there’s no going back!

Yes, and that was all done AFTER I applied glue, so it really was a rushed job. I demonstrated one to a son-in-law at christmas, so I'd had recent practice.